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Bringing Back Porter

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default Re: Bringing Back Porter

Post by lomiton on Sun Mar 08, 2020 8:44 pm

Thanks Deano for the updates on LMU and power broker to the stars, John Canzano. I'll have my popcorn popper ready for the upcoming week.

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default Re: Bringing Back Porter

Post by DoubleDipper on Sun Mar 08, 2020 9:23 pm

Dean Murdoch wrote:And there it is.

@GoodmanHoops wrote: Loyola Marymount has parted ways with Mike Dunlap, source told @Stadium.
LMU is poised to have a good 2020-21 season with the return of injured players, but after six seasons without a winning WCC record, and the rise of cross-town rival PU, it was time to go.

He's an LA guy known for being a "teacher," but much like popular Coach Max Good and Rodney Tention before him, it all comes down to wins, and after dropping from 8-8 last season to 4-12 this season, including two wins over UP, it is no surprise he's gone.
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default Re: Bringing Back Porter

Post by DoubleDipper on Sun Mar 08, 2020 9:35 pm

Dean Murdoch wrote:On the Porter front... this from Friday:
@johncanzanobft wrote: University of Portland basketball coach Terry Porter will meet with UP AD Scott Leykam next week, per source in Porter’s camp.

Porter went 9-23 this season. He’s 37-92 in four seasons at UP. WCC record: 7-61.
lomiton wrote:2XDipper: How's the money search coming? In hand yet? Timing? Inquiring minds want to know!
Canzano's tweet confirms what I'm hearing...there'll be a meeting to find a "mutually acceptable" agreement.

Apparently the meeting has been somewhat delayed by the women's team keeping Scott and Fr. Mark in Las Vegas... Very Happy
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default Re: Bringing Back Porter

Post by JimmAlacki on Mon Mar 09, 2020 8:13 am

I would like to hear Porter's explanation for his lack of success the past 4 years. If only he would just resign and make it easy on everyone.

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default Re: Bringing Back Porter

Post by Dean Murdoch on Mon Mar 09, 2020 9:27 am

up7587 wrote:But was there money for that, IDK.

There seemed to be, considering Porter essentially makes what Reveno did and Coach Cantu was immediately brought in following the Porter hiring.

up7587 wrote:Personalities, money demands, budget, etc., that led to making the change. We were all dismayed that Rev's teams couldn't seem to execute an end line out of bounds play. Terry Porter brought a lot of excitement to many in the Pilot community,  but hasn't worked out.

It's hard not to play the what-if game. Here's the 2016 and 2017 recruiting classes as they likely would have turned out under Coach Rev -

2016 - Alec Monson, Joseph Smoyer
2017 - Isaac Bonton, Makuach Maluach, Grant Anticevich

One of these groups is not like the other. The two guys in the 2016 crop turned out to be a good D2 player and a low-D1 role player. The three guys Rev had coming in 2017 turned out to be a JUCO All-American point guard now starting at a P12 school, a quality Mountain West-level wing, and a power forward that has turned into a starter at another P12 school.

The problem is that even if you project out the Pilots lineup in 2016-17 and 2017-18 had the teams been assembled as designed by Rev, I'm struggling to see how they would be much better than the teams Porter put on the floor - mostly because of the six open scholarships in 2015, when they went with Barreno, Jackson, Jazz, Maker, Marshall, and Russell.
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default Respectfully Disagree

Post by pilots#1 on Mon Mar 09, 2020 12:23 pm

Dean Murdoch wrote:
up7587 wrote:But was there money for that, IDK.

There seemed to be, considering Porter essentially makes what Reveno did and Coach Cantu was immediately brought in following the Porter hiring.

up7587 wrote:Personalities, money demands, budget, etc., that led to making the change. We were all dismayed that Rev's teams couldn't seem to execute an end line out of bounds play. Terry Porter brought a lot of excitement to many in the Pilot community,  but hasn't worked out.

It's hard not to play the what-if game. Here's the 2016 and 2017 recruiting classes as they likely would have turned out under Coach Rev -

2016 - Alec Monson, Joseph Smoyer
2017 - Isaac Bonton, Makuach Maluach, Grant Anticevich

One of these groups is not like the other. The two guys in the 2016 crop turned out to be a good D2 player and a low-D1 role player. The three guys Rev had coming in 2017 turned out to be a JUCO All-American point guard now starting at a P12 school, a quality Mountain West-level wing, and a power forward that has turned into a starter at another P12 school.

The problem is that even if you project out the Pilots lineup in 2016-17 and 2017-18 had the teams been assembled as designed by Rev, I'm struggling to see how they would be much better than the teams Porter put on the floor - mostly because of the six open scholarships in 2015, when they went with Barreno, Jackson, Jazz, Maker, Marshall, and Russell.


While I def. agree recruiting was a bust for a few years I think Bonton, Maluach, Anticevich, Jazz, Smoyer, and Maker could have been the nucleus of a darn good team. After getting re-focused on mainly just local kids and foreign kids I think things at UP were looking way up with that crew.

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default Re: Bringing Back Porter

Post by NoPoNeighbor on Mon Mar 09, 2020 1:11 pm

The historical revisionism begins again! The program was in bad shape under Reveno. Porter has taken it to new lows, but that doesn't mean that Reveno was doing a good job.

Reveno's problems were not just in-bounds plays. The recruiting was very bad, and the in-game coaching wasn't good. The team that should have been the best of the second half of his tenure, 2014-15, finished 17-16 with a 7-11 WCC record. His last year they were 12-20, 6-12.

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Post by Geezaldinho on Mon Mar 09, 2020 1:21 pm

It’s hard to imagine any  Reveno  team would have had a 1 -31 streak in conference.
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default Re: Bringing Back Porter

Post by Dean Murdoch on Mon Mar 09, 2020 2:00 pm

Geezaldinho wrote:It’s hard to imagine any  Reveno  team would have had a 1 -31 streak.

Agreed, and it's actually 1-41 if you want to include tournament games and the last bit of 2018 too.

#1, it's definitely interesting to look at the home run that would have been the 2017 recruiting class. But in the "Rev stays" scenario I would guess Jazz still transfers and Maker doesn't return to UP in 2016. Sure, maybe that means Jason Todd sticks around but I just don't see an immediate turnaround even with that class. Your starting five in 2017-18 is probably Bonton, Tyson, Maluach, Taylor, and Hartwich with Todd off the bench. Better than the 4 wins they got that year? Maybe. Sixth or better in the WCC? Probably not.
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default Re: Bringing Back Porter

Post by NoPoNeighbor on Mon Mar 09, 2020 4:46 pm

Geezaldinho wrote:It’s hard to imagine any  Reveno  team would have had a 1 -31 streak in conference.
I agree completely! And it is also hard to imagine any Reveno team finishing in the top half of the conference, let along the top 3, since even his "best" team over the last half of his tenure finished in the bottom half with a losing conference record.

It is possible for the two things to both be true: Reveno was stuck in the bottom half of the conference. Now Porter is stuck in the bottom of the conference. Not bottom half, just straight up bottom. In both cases, a coaching change is the right decision.

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default Re: Bringing Back Porter

Post by pilots#1 on Mon Mar 09, 2020 8:11 pm

Agree If rev didn’t have the winningest three years in history and other accolades there would be no reason to think his better recruiting class would succeed. But given what he did on the bluff compared to the history of the program I had hope he could get it back on track with the right group and recapture the magic that got them to back to back 3rd place, top 25 blah blah blah. I mean do you think he was just lucky? Or could he coach at one point and then forgot how lol

This seems just as revisionist IMO
“I agree completely! And it is also hard to imagine any Reveno team finishing in the top half of the conference”

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Post by NoPoNeighbor on Tue Mar 10, 2020 2:22 pm

pilots#1 wrote:I mean do you think he was just lucky? Or could he coach at one point and then forgot how lol
To a certain extent, yes, I do think Reveno got lucky with guys like Sikma, Stohl, Raivio and Campbell. A program like UP absolutely needs some luck in order to turn things around, and there is no shame in that. I'd say that Gonzaga got really lucky in the late 90s with its batch of under-the-radar, nose-to-the-grindstone guys. The difference is that Gonzaga was able to parlay its luck into sustainable momentum in recruiting and player development. Reveno, on the other hand, completely whiffed at his opportunity to translate his three years of success* into subsequent recruiting success and on-court achievement.

*The common mythology among UP fans seems to be that Reveno had three years of unparalleled success, which I believe stems from the often-cited statistic that he averaged 20 wins per season over the course of those three years: '08-'09, '09-'10, '10-'11. Clearly the first two of those years were a smashing success relative to the history of UP basketball, in which the Pilots placed 3rd in the WCC with conference records of 9-5 and 10-4. However in 2010-11 we finished in the bottom half of the conference -- 5th place out of 8 -- with a league record of 7-7. In 10 years, Reveno finished with a winning WCC record twice, which were also the only two times he finished in the top half of the conference standings. He finished his run with six straight seasons of bottom-half, .500-or-worse WCC conference records. For those who look back on his tenure as the glory days of Pilots basketball and wish we could just get back to those lofty heights... yeesh.

On the plus side, he never finished with fewer than 3 WCC wins (2008 and 2012).

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Post by pilots#1 on Tue Mar 10, 2020 3:53 pm

NoPoNeighbor wrote:
pilots#1 wrote:I mean do you think he was just lucky? Or could he coach at one point and then forgot how lol
To a certain extent, yes, I do think Reveno got lucky with guys like Sikma, Stohl, Raivio and Campbell. A program like UP absolutely needs some luck in order to turn things around, and there is no shame in that. I'd say that Gonzaga got really lucky in the late 90s with its batch of under-the-radar, nose-to-the-grindstone guys. The difference is that Gonzaga was able to parlay its luck into sustainable momentum in recruiting and player development. Reveno, on the other hand, completely whiffed at his opportunity to translate his three years of success* into subsequent recruiting success and on-court achievement.

*The common mythology among UP fans seems to be that Reveno had three years of unparalleled success, which I believe stems from the often-cited statistic that he averaged 20 wins per season over the course of those three years: '08-'09, '09-'10, '10-'11. Clearly the first two of those years were a smashing success relative to the history of UP basketball, in which the Pilots placed 3rd in the WCC with conference records of 9-5 and 10-4. However in 2010-11 we finished in the bottom half of the conference -- 5th place out of 8 -- with a league record of 7-7. In 10 years, Reveno finished with a winning WCC record twice, which were also the only two times he finished in the top half of the conference standings. He finished his run with six straight seasons of bottom-half, .500-or-worse WCC conference records. For those who look back on his tenure as the glory days of Pilots basketball and wish we could just get back to those lofty heights... yeesh.

On the plus side, he never finished with fewer than 3 WCC wins (2008 and 2012).

Agree we should absolutely demand more than a few good years! It's just that he gave a glimmer of hope in an otherwise long depressing history. Not trying to beat a dead horse by revisiting whether he should or shouldn't have been let go (I'll assume it was the correct choice) but we shouldn't throw out baby with bathwater and assume we can't learn anything from his tenure and what type of coach may jumpstart this dumpster fire.

I wasn't around to see it all live but from these alleged highlights below (WARNING: copied from his own bio!) just make me wonder what someone like him could have done if he had the budget for assistants etc. that we now have. Like to fill in the gaps where he maybe wasn't so strong like end lines OOB plays Smile.

From his own bio (don't hold me accountable for errors PLEASE!)
• Finished top-3 in the WCC (behind powerhouses Gonzaga and St. Mary's) in back-to-back seasons for the first time in school history (program had not finished in top half of conference since 1997-Cool
• 60 wins from 2009-2011 set a new school record for most wins over a three year period
• 21 wins in 2009-10 matches school record at the D1 level, and before my two 20-win seasons, the program had only had one other 20+ win season since it went D1 in 1958
• Invited to post-season four times (CIT) for first time since it’s lone appearance in ’95-6
• Broke into the National Top 25 for first time in 50 years in November 2009 after beating Oregon, and then routing UCLA and defeating then #16 Minnesota to reach the finals of the Anaheim 76 Classic
• Named WCC Coach of the Year as well as District 9 Coach of the Year in 2009 -- only the second time in history a UP coach has received the league honor (the prior occasion was in 1976)
• Prior to Reveno’s Pilots beating 3 ranked teams, the last win against a ranked opponent was in 1981
• Reveno’s Portland players earned All-WCC honors 20 times; those honored included an All-WCC Freshmen, an All-WCC Newcomer of the Year, and the nation’s #1 3-point shooter
• A focus on academic fit and oversight culminated in 20 All-WCC academic honors
• Recruited and coached the second UP basketball player in school history to earn Academic All-American honors, Thomas Van der Mars ‘15

Again - not trying to revisit. Let's just learn from our past.

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Post by pilots#1 on Tue Mar 10, 2020 3:58 pm

The difference is that Gonzaga was able to parlay its luck into sustainable momentum in recruiting and player development.

This is an intriguing point you make. When we do sniff success again I hope the city of Portland, the students and the alumns will fan the flame more. Spokane really showed up and supported the Zags like crazy. Maybe b/c they have no football or pro teams? Or they are in a more central location relative to fan base? I remember noticing that when UP was top 25 --for a day lol --and came home to play local team PSU in Chiles the two schools combined couldn't even manage a good turnout. That can't happen next time we're on fire!!!! Go Pilots!

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Post by JimmAlacki on Tue Mar 10, 2020 5:43 pm

Gonzaga benefited from getting some really good local (Clark County and Oregon) kids. It is sad that one of the great Pilot player went to Gonzaga and his younger brother is listed as being a lucky recruit when he opted for UP.

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Post by pilots#1 on Wed Mar 11, 2020 7:15 am

JimmAlacki wrote:Gonzaga benefited from getting some really good local (Clark County and Oregon) kids. It is sad that one of the great Pilot player went to Gonzaga and his younger brother is listed as being a lucky recruit when he opted for UP.


What is a "lucky" recruit anyway? I think of like James Harden who was highly rated but wanted to stay home so didn't pick his most prestigious option. When trying to turn something around at a small school with no history of success you can either go after recruits that are in demand and sell sell sell your vision and the opportunity to build something (can we afford someone that could be successful like this?). And/or you can identify kids that are under the radar that you think could be developed, stay for four years, etc. Beyond the top 3 the team with the most upperclassmen tends to WIN in WCC. Were the above listed lucky recruits "luck" or were they kids that staff evaluated as having more potential than other schools saw? Ravio, Stohl, Campbell, Sikma, Smeulders, Nem, etc. Local kids and international kids. Kinda like the Jazz, Bonton, Australian crew.

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Post by JimmAlacki on Wed Mar 11, 2020 8:13 am

I also don't understand the reference to the word lucky in describing UP's lack of success and their inability to get a certain recruit.


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default Re: Bringing Back Porter

Post by Dean Murdoch on Wed Mar 11, 2020 10:55 am

Sorry to interrupt this ritual beating of a dead horse, but I would like to bring forward a tweet from ESPN's Jeff Borzello.

@jeffborzello wrote:So this is interesting: Portland guard Malcolm Porter -- son of Portland coach Terry Porter -- is exploring a graduate transfer, sources told ESPN.

Porter averaged 9.5 PPG this season.

Terry Porter has one season left on his contract but is 1-31 in the WCC last two seasons...
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Post by DoubleDipper on Wed Mar 11, 2020 11:20 am

Dean Murdoch wrote:Sorry to interrupt this ritual beating of a dead horse, but I would like to bring forward a tweet from ESPN's Jeff Borzello.

@jeffborzello wrote:So this is interesting: Portland guard Malcolm Porter -- son of Portland coach Terry Porter -- is exploring a graduate transfer, sources told ESPN.

Porter averaged 9.5 PPG this season.

Terry Porter has one season left on his contract but is 1-31 in the WCC last two seasons...
That's old news on this board, but it's good to see it in print elsewhere...

It was pretty apparent as the season wound down that Malcolm, just like Franklin the year before, needs to get away from his dad if he's to continue playing....or alternatively, his dad needs to get away from Malcolm (as a coach, not as a dad!)
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Post by Dean Murdoch on Wed Mar 11, 2020 11:26 am

DoubleDipper wrote:That's old news on this board, but it's good to see it in print elsewhere...

It was pretty apparent as the season wound down that Malcolm, just like Franklin the year before, needs to get away from his dad if he's to continue playing....or alternatively, his dad needs to get away from Malcolm (as a coach, not as a dad!)

Yes, sorry, should have credited you with this news from a while back! Maybe Borzello reads Pilot Nation.
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Post by DoubleDipper on Wed Mar 11, 2020 11:38 am

Dean Murdoch wrote:Yes, sorry, should have credited you with this news from a while back! Maybe Borzello reads Pilot Nation.
Ha! If we all wanted credit for our posts on PN we'd probably end up in front of a board of inquiry or worse.

We should take our cue from the politicians, write or say anything we want, but then deny we ever wrote or said what we wrote or said... Evil or Very Mad
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Post by lomiton on Wed Mar 11, 2020 2:12 pm

JimmAlacki wrote:Gonzaga benefited from getting some really good local (Clark County and Oregon) kids. It is sad that one of the great Pilot player went to Gonzaga and his younger brother is listed as being a lucky recruit when he opted for UP.

Jimbo: It's clear you don't have teenage kids - or you may have forgotten your teen age years. Bottom line is well raised kids are going to make their own call on a decision that important to their life. Would have loved to have both Raivio kids but it was what it was. So while it might be a disappointment, I wouldn't call it "sad."

At this moment its going to be hard to get any kid - let alone a SW Washington kid to choose UP if Gonzaga is at their door with the same scholarship offer. That's going to have to change and it's going to have to change at the grass roots level. Finding these players early, staying in contact with the player, family and their AAU coach and letting them know the benefits of playing close to home. New coach is going to need all 24 hours in their day.

Finally to address Gonzaga, in my opinion it comes down to two words. Mark. Few. Typical successful mid-major coaches leave at the first sight of money because they are afraid of overstaying their welcome when the institution is not set up for long term success. Instead of bolting like most of his peers, Few gave the school/boosters a chance to "put up or shut up." They took the risk and put up and Few executed to it. Now it's in maintenance mode with a world-wide brand.

Everyone (players, coaches, fans) typically prefers the ready made program. Not so many have the vision, guts and resources to build one. So kudos to them. UP just needs to get off the mat and get after it again. Maybe some day our ship will come in.

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Post by Dean Murdoch on Wed Mar 11, 2020 2:29 pm

DoubleDipper wrote:Ha! If we all wanted credit for our posts on PN we'd probably end up in front of a board of inquiry or worse.

Board: "Did you OR DID YOU NOT in the summer of 2017 repeatedly post about your excitment of the incoming recruiting class based on the rankings of *checks notes* Hoop Scoop magazine?"

Deaner, sobbing: "I did"
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Post by Guest on Wed Mar 11, 2020 2:55 pm

Dean Murdoch wrote:
DoubleDipper wrote:Ha! If we all wanted credit for our posts on PN we'd probably end up in front of a board of inquiry or worse.

Board: "Did you OR DID YOU NOT in the summer of 2017 repeatedly post about your excitment of the incoming recruiting class based on the rankings of *checks notes* Hoop Scoop magazine?"

Deaner, sobbing: "I did"

Are you now or have you ever been an irrational fan?

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Post by DoubleDipper on Wed Mar 11, 2020 3:50 pm

up7587 wrote:Are you now or have you ever been an irrational fan?  
There are plenty of those fans reacting now to the NCAA's decision "to conduct our upcoming championship events, including the Division I men’s and women’s basketball tournaments, with only essential staff and limited family attendance."

https://twitter.com/NCAA/status/1237838583630721027

Board: "Are you now our have you ever been an irrational fan?"

Irrational Fan: "Yes, but isn't my ignorance an excuse for acting or writing irrationally?"

(Note: My next door neighbor, the physician-in-charge of the fight against COVID-19 by a very large not-for-profit West Coast health care system, says the move by the NCAA to ban fans was "absolutely the right thing to do.")
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