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2021 WCC Games

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Post by DoubleDipper Mon Feb 08, 2021 11:06 am

DoubleDipper wrote:
Dean Murdoch wrote:I am not sure if I heard Scott Leykam correctly on the halftime interview, but I think he said that he doubts if the Santa Clara game will happen next weekend and the Pilots will be looking at alternative arrangements if that game is postponed/cancelled.
He did say that, and he probably has "insider" information, but at the outset of SCU's latest pause it was said the Broncos would be back to play GU this coming Thursday and UP on Saturday.
Always good to have "insider" information I guess, as the Pilots game against SCU is now listed as "postponed," and SCU's game against GU is now shown as "canceled."

UP MBB's next scheduled games are not until February 20 and 21 against UOP in the Chiles Center...but surely something will change before now and then, don't you think?
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Post by DoubleDipper Mon Feb 08, 2021 6:52 pm

DoubleDipper wrote:UP MBB's next scheduled games are not until February 20 and 21 against UOP in the Chiles Center...but surely something will change before now and then, don't you think?
Wrong again!

Instead of playing UOP in Portland on February 21, the Pilots will travel to Stockton to play the Tigers at 2pm this Thursday.

The Pilots and Tigers are still scheduled to play in the Chiles Center on February 20 at 1pm.

Go Coach Ben!!
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Post by DoubleDipper Tue Feb 09, 2021 12:16 am

DoubleDipper wrote:Knock on wood, but due to the diligence and discipline of the staff and players at BYU and UP, those two teams are the only ones in the WCC that have not had to pause for COVID.
With five teams out due to COVID restrictions, the WCC tied the Patriot League for most teams not playing last week.

WCC: SMC, USF, LMU, USD, SCU
Patriot: Army, Navy, Boston U., Bucknell, Lehigh

Miami apparently canceled its game with North Carolina last night because two UNC players, Day’Ron Sharpe and Armando Bacot, were caught on video not wearing masks at a UNC party after beating Duke.

UPDATE: Here is the video...
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Post by DoubleDipper Tue Feb 09, 2021 12:42 pm

Dean Murdoch wrote:What are the chances they even let the Pilots go to Vegas? I could see them wanting to go with a smaller tournament to lessen the amount of teams heading to the site.
What is the point of having a tournament?  

The dollar expense and the potential for the players, staff, game officials and league officials contracting the coronavirus at the Orleans in Las Vegas may be just too great to take the chance.  Money is often a driver for sporting events, but with operating expenses and few fans buying tickets…it’s a loss.

After watching GU get by BYU by 11 points last night in Provo, I believe both teams are Indianapolis bound, so what are the positives for having a WCC Tournament?  I suppose SMC or some other school could be a surprise tournament winner and go to the Dance too, but that is improbable.

Understandably, GU and BYU have a big say in WCC decisions, and if I were the coaches and ADs of those schools, I would not want to go to Las Vegas and risk an injury or end up losing a game and a higher seed in Indianapolis.

However, by canceling the WCC Tournament, and assuming GU and BYU are going to the NCAA Tournament, they are going to have to find some competition between the end of the WCC season on February 27 and the beginning of the NCAA Tournament on March 18.

My guess is there will be leagues that will not have tournaments or teams that are knocked out of their tournament who would love to take on the #2 and the #30 team in the nation.
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Post by dholcombe Tue Feb 09, 2021 5:06 pm

I'm an advocate for an 8 team or 6 team tournament in normal years. I don't see the use of the 9th/10th place team in the conference ever going to the tournament. It would allow cutting down the tournament by a day and using traditional bracket. If they really want to protect the 1/2 seed and continue to have them only play two games they could have a 3 day tournament with 6 teams with 6 plays 3, 5 plays 4 on day one. Day two 3/6 winner plays 2 seed and 4/5 winner plays 1 seed. Then the remaining 2 teams play on day 3. This rewards teams for having a good conference record.

Going to 6 teams may reduce revenue. I don't feel like going to 8 teams is very likely to reduce revenue. Are television rights to the first days games actually worth anything? I don't know

How many fans of likely 9/10 seeds are buying tournament tickets? I feel like it's not many and that any full tournament ticket packages they are buying would likely be easily sold to the remaining schools.

During a pandemic year...it seems absolutely silly to have all 10 teams go.

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Post by Geezaldinho Tue Feb 09, 2021 5:54 pm

DoubleDipper wrote:
Dean Murdoch wrote:What are the chances they even let the Pilots go to Vegas? I could see them wanting to go with a smaller tournament to lessen the amount of teams heading to the site.
What is the point of having a tournament?  

Exactly. The only reason there as ever been for a tournament was the chance of sneaking an extra team into the NCAA field.

Most of the conference can’t even keep it together to play close to a full schedule.
Right now the third place team is 4-3. The fourth place team is 3-2.
And the chances are they will miss more of the schedule.

The risk is greater that byu and the zags will go on a Covid hold and we don’t get any extra team in the field.
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Post by dholcombe Tue Feb 09, 2021 6:24 pm

Pepperdine has a lock on 3rd imo having beat byu. Who belongs in 4th with the unbalanced schedule is up for debate. Pacific is 2-1 against teams that aren't byu and Gonzaga.

Edit: The net rankings disagree with my gut analysis and have Pepperdine 6th in conference.

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Post by Geezaldinho Tue Feb 09, 2021 8:00 pm

dholcombe wrote:Pepperdine has a lock on 3rd imo having beat byu. Who belongs in 4th with the unbalanced schedule is up for debate. Pacific is 2-1 against teams that aren't byu and Gonzaga.

Edit: The net rankings disagree with my gut analysis and have Pepperdine 6th in conference.

Never trust your gut.

The selection committee won’t.
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Post by DoubleDipper Wed Feb 10, 2021 8:22 pm

Geezaldinho wrote:Exactly. The only reason there as ever been for a tournament was the chance of sneaking an extra team into the NCAA field.
Most of the conference can’t even keep it together to play close to a full schedule.
DoubleDipper wrote:However, by canceling the WCC Tournament, and assuming GU and BYU are going to the NCAA Tournament, they are going to have to find some competition between the end of the WCC season on February 27 and the beginning of the NCAA Tournament on March 18.
Hey, instead of using the two weeks prior to Indianapolis for the WCC Tournament, why not attempt to simply finish the WCC season with each team getting as close to 16 games played as possible…giving priority to those teams with the best records.

If that is not an option, what about having a six team tournament in a “bubble” in Spokane?  As the NCAA is requiring both coaches and players of tournament teams to have seven consecutive negative COVID tests before arriving in Indianapolis, the bubble would not only be a lot safer, it would make it less difficult to pass all those tests.
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Post by optimist Thu Feb 11, 2021 4:41 pm

After today's Pacific debacle, I can't watch anymore.
TP is gone (bravo, but it's about time Scott) and I didn't think it could get worse. Usually when a change is made, there is an appreciable uptick...kids want to show that it wasn't them, it was the bad coaching. We've seen it countless times before. Sadly, I'm not seeing it at UP. I feel badly for Johnson...he seems like a fish out of water. His substitution patterns look like he is either trying to give everyone playing time without regard for winning or he is simply in over his head. And from a computer screen afar, the kids don't appear to be responding to him either...their body language says "we're done", somewhat understandable given everything that's transpired this year. Leykam put Johnson in an impossible situation and everyone is paying the price...can only wonder if Geving as interim (former D1 head coach) would have been a better choice for all involved. Good news is just three more games coach Johnson...hang in there, it's almost over.

There were some solid pieces this year...sad to see them wasted. Since starters Ali, Davis, Jones, Henn(?isn't he getting his masters?) and Dasher will likely leave (bench players will surely try), the new coach is going to struggle. I can only hope they find someone with D1 head coaching and recruiting experience to take the reins (not the D2/D3 route some have suggested) or else we're looking at a long road of losing ahead. UP might not be top of the table, but they should always be middle of the pack. Let the new era begin and cross your fingers that Leykam doesn't make a huge mistake again.

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Post by Geezaldinho Thu Feb 11, 2021 7:59 pm

DoubleDipper wrote:As the NCAA is requiring both coaches and players of tournament teams to have seven consecutive negative COVID tests before arriving in Indianapolis...

You’re saying we have a shot at the tournament?
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Post by DoubleDipper Thu Feb 11, 2021 9:37 pm

Well, it did seem like Coach Johnson was running an AAU tryout against UOP this afternoon where everyone except Adams and Ali got to play (including a combined 20 minutes for walk-ons Watson and Turner), but I wouldn’t feel badly for him…he has much more experience than Geving and Porter combined and his “line changes” were a welcome change to what we have been seeing.  

With nothing on the line, I think Ben did everyone a favor by letting guys free-wheel it and give everyone some audition time before the season ends and many look for new schools, including the coaching staff.
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Post by DoubleDipper Fri Feb 12, 2021 9:14 pm

Geezaldinho wrote:
DoubleDipper wrote:
Dean Murdoch wrote:What are the chances they even let the Pilots go to Vegas? I could see them wanting to go with a smaller tournament to lessen the amount of teams heading to the site.
What is the point of having a tournament?  
Exactly. The only reason there as ever been for a tournament was the chance of sneaking an extra  team into the NCAA field.
2021 WCC Games - Page 4 Screen57
Well, I guess that takes care of that...IMO, TV revenue trumped the safety of all concerned.

However, I was probably just dreaming to think that if there were no WCC tournament, GU and BYU would be able to find opponents to keep them sharp during the three weeks between the end of the WCC season and the Dance...but under the WCC Tournament format, they still won't get much playing time.

At least by finishing the WCC Tournament on March 9 they'll be able to leave the Las Vegas bubble for their home bubble in time to get in seven straight days of negative testing before arriving in Indianapolis.
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Post by DoubleDipper Thu Feb 18, 2021 1:54 pm

UPDATE:  Apparently there is still some discussion in the WCC as to whether GU and BYU will participate in the WCC Tournament, and if they do opt out, whether there will be a WCC Tournament.

No conferences, including the WCC, received NCAA Tournament money this past year, and it is important the WCC get as many teams as possible into the Tournament so there is greater revenue.  NCAA Tournament money is parceled out to the schools, but it is also used to keep the WCC offices afloat by paying the rent, salaries, etc.

As both BYU and GU will be going the the NCAA Tournament, thereby bringing revenue to the WCC, there has been quite a bit of discussion about a bad loss or the risk of injury or illness on either team if they went to Las Vegas...especially as any teams that have tier 1 people test positive for COVID would have to shutdown operations and would not be able to practice prior to the NCAA Tournament.

...and that is in addition to all personnel from all teams having to test negative for seven straight days prior to arriving in Indianapolis or they will be tossed out of the Tournament.  

(Hmm, I wonder if that means there will be a waiting list to fill-in for any team that is tossed). scratch
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Post by DoubleDipper Thu Feb 18, 2021 2:13 pm

Here's another thought...

Conferences, including the WCC, have until February 26 to inform the NCAA how they intend to award their auto-bid.

What if GU and BYU were to opt out of the WCC Tournament and the tournament were still played.  Would the WCC award their auto-bid to the winner of the downsized tournament?

Hey, it would mean more revenue for the WCC by having 3 teams in the Tournament...but would the NCAA buy it, and how far would GU and BYU drop in the Tournament seedings.

Things to think about when you're working from home during the pandemic.
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Post by DoubleDipper Thu Feb 18, 2021 5:58 pm

No announcements yet, but the WCC has been working on adjustments to the schedule over the next couple of weeks to make up for some "postponed" games and to get more competitive games for the higher rated teams.

Apparently the only change to UP's schedule so far will be on the last day of the season, February 27, when UP goes to SCU instead of going to LMU...do you think UP and Ben Johnson can finally win their first game?  Based upon the work they have put in, they both deserve it  

The SCU game makes sense...the only WCC teams UP has not played this season are SCU or SMC.  Maybe the Pilots can get a mid-week game against the Gaels.


Last edited by DoubleDipper on Fri Feb 19, 2021 10:19 am; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : UP going to SCU)
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Post by deprofundis Fri Feb 19, 2021 12:25 am

Word today is that WCC will use KenPom to determine WCC Tournament seedings.

https://youtu.be/Jugag0hY3rU

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Post by StudentPilot Fri Feb 19, 2021 1:36 pm

DoubleDipper wrote: Maybe the Pilots can get a mid-week game against the Gaels.
Nope, the SMC mid-week game went to Pepperdine on Monday February 22.

I think the WCC wants teams toward the top of the standing to play so the WCC Tournament seedings will make more sense...even with KenPom's help.
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Post by StudentPilot Fri Feb 19, 2021 1:45 pm

deprofundis wrote:Word today is that WCC will use KenPom to determine WCC Tournament seedings.

https://youtu.be/Jugag0hY3rU
Ken Pomeroy said:
"The WCC is really unusual just in terms of, first of all, conference structure.

Gonzaga to Portland, like there’s a huge difference in team quality that doesn’t exist anywhere else."  Rolling Eyes
Interesting, using KenPom, the current seeding of the WCC Tournament would be:
2021 WCC Games - Page 4 Ken_pm10
If these seedings were to remain the same, UP would play SCU back-to-back on Saturday February 27 and Thursday March 4.
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Post by Dean Murdoch Fri Feb 19, 2021 2:32 pm

StudentPilot wrote:I think the WCC wants teams toward the top of the standing to play so the WCC Tournament seedings will make more sense...even with KenPom's help.

The problem is that a clear top three has separated themselves from the rest, and SMC has played that top three 3 times and LMU has yet to play one. Couple that with SMC's away win over LMU and you get a 2-6 team ahead of a 6-3 team which isn't ideal.

It should sort itself out somewhat, but SMC still has to play Pepperdine and BYU in their final three games so they might well be seeded in the top half with a 3-8 record!

At least the 1 and 10 seeds are locked down Rolling Eyes
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Post by Sound Voltex Fri Feb 19, 2021 3:26 pm

StudentPilot wrote:
2021 WCC Games - Page 4 Ken_pm10

0.289  Neutral
0.288  Neutral
0.006 Sad
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Post by DoubleDipper Mon Feb 22, 2021 12:52 pm

DoubleDipper wrote:UPDATE:  Apparently there is still some discussion in the WCC as to whether GU and BYU will participate in the WCC Tournament...
Mark Few and GU are against playing the WCC Tournament in Las Vegas...but the tournament will be played and GU and BYU will be there.

Mark Few said:
Gonzaga is just one vote.
He has no problem playing because he doesn't believe anyone will get COVID from playing, but putting 20 teams in one venue, especially a casino, with elevators, makes no sense.

He is concerned about the ability for any team to pass the 7 daily tests for 7 straight days prior to Indianapolis, especially because teams will likely have to quarantine for 7 days prior to the beginning of testing to ensure all the tests will be negative...and GU and BYU will still be in Las Vegas within that window.
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Post by Geezaldinho Mon Feb 22, 2021 1:38 pm

DoubleDipper wrote:

He is concerned about the ability for any team to pass the 7 daily tests for 7 straight days prior to Indianapolis, especially because teams will likely have to quarantine for 7 days prior to the beginning of testing to ensure all the tests will be negative...and GU and BYU will still be in Las Vegas within that window.

Didn’t Gonzaga have to take a Covid timeout in early December when a GU player tested positive?

https://www.spokesman.com/stories/2020/dec/05/gonzaga-baylor-showdown-called-off-after-gu-player/

Unlike *cough* some other teams.
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Post by DoubleDipper Mon Feb 22, 2021 1:59 pm

Geezaldinho wrote:Didn’t Gonzaga have to take a Covid timeout in early December when a GU player tested positive?

Unlike *cough* some other teams.
Yes, I think that is why Few is so concerned about Las Vegas, as it was thought the individual(s) who contracted the disease did so outside a basketball setting.

BYU and UP are still the only WCC teams that have NOT had to pause for COVID...

UPDATE: GU is looking for a place to stay in Las Vegas that is "away from the crowd."
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Post by Snus Junction Mon Feb 22, 2021 4:22 pm

I dont know whats in it for UP or WCC. How does UP benefit from the tournament. Maybe an extra game? TV $$?
Zags and BYU are locks and could reflect well on WCC if they do well.
If they are bombed out by COVID WE - and the WCC lose.
Lets spend the time looking for a new Coach and to extent allowed on recruiting.
Do we have a scout in Syria?

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