NCAA Rule Changes Might Benefit Pilots for Hosting?

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NCAA Rule Changes Might Benefit Pilots for Hosting?

Post by Stonehouse on Thu Oct 16, 2008 1:00 pm

This was in today's Oregonian:

Riding a 10-game winning streak, the third-ranked University of Portland women's soccer team is cruising toward a familiar destination: the NCAA Tournament.

With six games to go in the regular season, the Pilots are poised to kick off the postseason in prime position: with one of four top seeds and, thanks in part to a revised NCAA policy effective this year, perhaps home-field advantage.

"We're just trying to take care of our end of it and win games," Pilots coach Garrett Smith said Wednesday. "If we win out, it looks like we'll be in that position."

Then again, Smith said, "The NCAA never ceases to amaze us and surprise us."

The Pilots have begun the past three postseasons on the road, despite finishing each regular season with a top-five ranking. Even an unbeaten record in 2005, the year the Pilots won their second national championship, wasn't enough to keep Portland at home for its first-round game. The NCAA selection committee sent the Pilots to Nebraska for their opening-round games in 2005, Salt Lake City in 2006 and Boulder, Colo., last year.

This year may be different. For one thing, Portland claimed the top spot in the NCAA's ratings percentage index released this month. The RPI, which analyzes a team's record and strength of schedule, is a key factor in determining top seeds in the NCAA Tournament.

A NCAA policy revision might help Portland's chances for opening the 2008 postseason at home. To keep travel costs down, the NCAA will fly two teams to a four-team regional but not three. But without another qualifier within 350 miles of Portland last year, the Pilots were sent packing again for their postseason run. This year, the NCAA expanded that distance to 400 miles.

That expands the field of schools in Portland's "region" to include No. 24 Washington State and Gonzaga. Other Division 1 schools within 400 miles of Portland include Washington, No. 20 in the latest RPI report, Oregon and Oregon State.

Pilots goalkeeper Kelsey Davis said she's rooting for all of them to do well.

"Absolutely," she said. "There's no place better to play than at home."

And this fact box:

For the University of Portland to have a shot at being a host to first- and second-round women's soccer playoff games, another Division I team within 400 miles must also make the 64-team field. The following details how Northwest teams (records in parentheses) did last weekend (and national or regional rankings where appropriate):

Washington State (6-3-4, 0-1-1 Pacific-10 Conference): lost in double OT at then-No. 4 UCLA 2-1; tied then-No. 5 USC 0-0; No. 24 nationally
Washington (9-4-0, 0-2-0 Pac-10): lost at then-No. 5 USC 3-2 in overtime; lost at then-No. 4 UCLA 4-0; tied for No. 10 in West region
Oregon (7-5-1, 0-2-0 Pac-10): lost 3-0 at then-No. 6 Stanford; lost at then-No. 19 California 5-1
Oregon State (5-6-1, 0-2-0 Pac-10): lost at then-No. 19 California 1-0; lost at then-No. 6 Stanford 3-0
Portland State (2-9-3, 1-0-1 Big Sky Conference): defeated Northern Colorado 2-1; tied Northern Arizona 0-0
Gonzaga (5-7-2, 0-1-0 West Coast Conference): lost 4-0 to No. 3 Portland
Next up

Friday: Loyola Marymount at Portland, 7 p.m.

http://www.oregonlive.com/pilots/oregonian/index.ssf?/base/sports/1224123906309690.xml&coll=7

Gotta love that quote from Garrett about the NCAA. Smile

The gist of it is that the new rules will make it more likely that the Pilots might host first- and second-round games this year. This is correct, but unfortunately the article itself is pretty factually inaccurate.

The rules changes are as follows:

1) The expanded 400 mile rule is in response to rising travel costs. Now, if a school is within 400 miles of a host site, they will drive instead of fly

2) There will be no conference match-ups until the third round

The NCAA would prefer to not have to fly teams, but it's not a hard-and-fast rule. And, of course, Gonzaga is not an elligible team to travel to us since they are in our conference.

Anyway, the second rule is what really benefits UP. They can't have a Bay Area pod with Stanford and Cal in it or an LA pod with UCLA, USC or even a Seattle pod with UW and WSU. This rule could mean more air-travel in general, and it's possible that UP could end up as an "orphan" site that picks up traveling teams from all over the country that just don't fit in anywhere else because of the conference match-ups.

But more than anything else, UW doing well and seemingly headed for a spot in the tournament is our biggest advantage right now.

Just another example of the declining quality of Pilot coverage since Abby Haight left sports... Sad

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Re: NCAA Rule Changes Might Benefit Pilots for Hosting?

Post by Auto Pilot on Thu Oct 16, 2008 1:34 pm

400 miles on the bus = eight hours driving. How many rounds of "bottles of beer on the wall is that?"

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Re: NCAA Rule Changes Might Benefit Pilots for Hosting?

Post by DaTruRochin on Thu Oct 16, 2008 1:54 pm

A lot less than the long road back after losing in Portland...... Again.... drunken

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Re: NCAA Rule Changes Might Benefit Pilots for Hosting?

Post by Geezaldinho on Thu Oct 16, 2008 2:19 pm

I just saw the article and was about tho post when I saw yours. Sometime soon I'll have to go through the list of schools and see how many aditions there are to the pool of potential hosting partners.


First off, I'm not sure that the non-conference rule benefits Portland. The rest of the country has plenty of schools nearby to chose from, perpetually leaving UP out in the cold in the Apparently talent poor NW. As odd man out, we'll perpetually be doomed to wander like the Flying Dutchman.


There are two other things not mentioned in the article.

1. The first 4 seeds still get to stay at home until the College Cup.

2 The NCAA declined to adopt their own bylaws as they pertain to venue siting when applying them to Women's soccer.
Those bylaws require that potential for revenue be included as selection criteria. For some reason, the women's soccer committee has declined to use that critria.

Hmm, could it have anything to do with the fact that the membership of the committee is 60-40 BCS and they are more concerned with Football?

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Re: NCAA Rule Changes Might Benefit Pilots for Hosting?

Post by Auto Pilot on Thu Oct 16, 2008 2:29 pm

Stonehouse, your avatar is finally catching up with the times.

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Re: NCAA Rule Changes Might Benefit Pilots for Hosting?

Post by Stonehouse on Thu Oct 16, 2008 2:53 pm

Oh yeah... I'm feeling the rhythm of life with help of my good friend Darren Cooper! Smile

First, does anyone have a link to something from the NCAA about #1 seeds being guaranteed to host? I'm hearing that might not actually be the case.

Also, here's the bracket for last year's 2007 College Cup. I've heard that six site had two conference opponents at them, but I'm too lazy to double-check. Anyone else want to start spotting them?

http://sports.espn.go.com/ncaa/news/story?id=3107249

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Re: NCAA Rule Changes Might Benefit Pilots for Hosting?

Post by Stonehouse on Thu Oct 16, 2008 3:04 pm

OK, apparantly I'm not too lazy. And actually I count EIGHT instances where two conference teams were in the same four-team opening round pod:

Louisville and Notre Dame (Big East)
Georgia and South Carolina (SEC)
Indiana and Purdue (Big 10)
Texas A&M and Texas (Big 12)
Wake Forest and Boston College (ACC)
Stanford and Cal (Pac 10)
Penn State and Ohio State (Big 10)
Folrida and Auburn (SEC)

That is a HUGE amount... half of the 16 pods. So clearly this is going to have big time implications for the scheduling of the pods.

Anyone want to take the time to make a big list of all the teams and what conference they are in? Wink

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Re: NCAA Rule Changes Might Benefit Pilots for Hosting?

Post by UPSoccerFanatic on Thu Oct 16, 2008 3:29 pm

Stonehouse, I'll make a list of teams/conferences in a minute and will post it. It's easy with my database.

I agree with the question about #1 seeds having the right to play at home in rounds 1-2 regardless of the transportation rule. It's not in the D1 Women's Soccer Championship Manual for 2008 (I thought it would be), and I'm not able to find it anywhere else. Purplegeezer, can you give any help?

Although the "no two teams from the same conference in a single round 1-2 bracket" is in effect this year, the Division 1 Championships/Sports Management Cabinet is proposing to ratchet that rule back after this year to the old rule, which forbade conference matchups only in the first round.

In addition, the Cabinet is proposing to require all sports other than D1 basketball, "regardless of a sport's ability to generate revenue," to follow the requirement that teams be placed in brackets per D1 Bylaw 31.1.3.2.5. That Bylaw states:

"In championships that do not generate revenue, pairings shall be based primarily on the teams' geographical proximity to one another, regardless of their region, in order to avoid air travel in preliminary rounds whenever possible. Teams' seeding relative to one another may be taken into consideration when establishing pairings if such a pairing does not result in air travel that otherwise could be avoided. The Championships/Sports Management Cabinet shall have the authority to modify its working principles related to the championship site assignment on a case-by-case basis."

I read this proposal as negating in the future any rule that may exist for this year guaranteeing home round 1/2 games to #1 seeds. Purplegeezer, what do you think?

Larry Williams, by the way, is on the Cabinet. The background for the Cabinet's actions and recommendations on travel requirements are in the Report on the Cabinet's September meeting, which is available at the following link: http://web1.ncaa.org/web_files/DI_Champs_Sports_Mgmt_Cab/2008/Reports/September/Final%20Cabinet%20Report.pdf

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Re: NCAA Rule Changes Might Benefit Pilots for Hosting?

Post by Stonehouse on Thu Oct 16, 2008 3:32 pm

Hold that thought, UPSF. I already did it!

ACC: 9 teams
(UNC, Duke, Florida State, Wake Forest, Boston College, Miami, Clemson, Virginia)
SEC: 6
(Georgia, South Carolina, LSU, Florida, Auburn, Tennessee)
Big 10: 5
(Illinois, Indiana, Purdue, Penn State, Ohio State)
Big 12: 5
(Texas A&M, Texas, Missouri, Colorado, Oklahoma State)
Big East: 5
(Louisville, Notre Dame, UConn, West Virginia, Georgetown)
Pac-10: 4
(Cal, Stanford, UCLA, USC)
WCC: 3
(Portland, Santa Clara, San Diego)
Southern: 3
(UNC-Greensboro, Samford, Furman)
Colonial: 3
(Hofstra, James Madison, William & Mary)
C-USA: 2
(Memphis, Central Florida)
Small conference: 20
(High Point, Loyola Illinois, Alabama A&M, Toledo, Oakland, Kennesaw State, Boston U, Sacramento State, Monmouth, Penn, Navy, SE Missouri State, Creighton, Denver, Hawaii, Charlotte, Loyola MD, Cal Fullerton, Stephen F. Austin, BYU)


Last edited by Stonehouse on Thu Oct 16, 2008 3:38 pm; edited 1 time in total

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Re: NCAA Rule Changes Might Benefit Pilots for Hosting?

Post by UPSoccerFanatic on Thu Oct 16, 2008 3:36 pm

If anyone wants to see all 318 D1 Women's Soccer teams and their conferences, regions, and states, the following link will take you to the NCAA's list: http://web1.ncaa.org/onlineDir/exec/sponsorship?sortOrder=0&division=1&sport=WSO

The NCAA's list initially is by team in alphabetical order. But, if you want to, you can click on "Conference" to sort by conference.

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Re: NCAA Rule Changes Might Benefit Pilots for Hosting?

Post by Stonehouse on Thu Oct 16, 2008 3:44 pm

It might be helpful to have the seeds from last year as well:

1: UNC (ACC), Penn State (B10), Stanford (P10), UCLA (P10)
2: Purdue (B10), Texas A&M (B12), USC (P10), Portland (WCC)
3: Georgia (SEC), Florida State (ACC), Florida (SEC), Tennessee (SEC)
4: Notre Dame (BE), Wake Forest (ACC), West Virginia (BE), Virginia (ACC)

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Re: NCAA Rule Changes Might Benefit Pilots for Hosting?

Post by Stonehouse on Thu Oct 16, 2008 3:53 pm

Next thing to do is use the end of the season RPIs from the NCAA to assign a pecking order of teams after the seeded ones...

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Re: NCAA Rule Changes Might Benefit Pilots for Hosting?

Post by Stonehouse on Thu Oct 16, 2008 5:03 pm

OK... I think I did it the best I could. I had to do a lot of shaking around, and it's pretty clear that this rule is going to make more teams travel around. I tried to do the best job I could of only moving similarly-ranked RPI teams, but it wasn't perfect.

(I can email it to you if you want... maybe I'll post it up later if I have the time.)

The biggest challenge was the South... there are a ton of SEC and ACC teams in the tournament, so it's pretty tough to re-arrange all of them. And actually the Big-10 area was difficult as well.

I intentionally didn't re-arrange UP's bracket, just to see what happened. The messiest pod I have is Purdue hosting Oakland (which is in Detroit), Creighton, and Cal. But here's the rub... Purdue was also a 2 seed and had a lower overall RPI than us (13 to our 6). Now, they did beat us head-to-head last year, but I'm thinking that the NCAA may have preferred to go with Portland hosting Cal, Hawaii, and BYU and made Purdue travel for a pod of Colorado, Denver and Creighton. (And have Oakland swap with BYU, which I had in a pod with Tennessee, Clemson, and Furman.)

It's scenerios like this that could end up really helping UP. The no-conference-games-in-the-first-two-rounds rule really makes it more difficult to create those super clean pods where all the teams are right within the same area. It's going to be messier and more teams are going to have to travel. And since UP has through history usually been a team that is forced to travel, it can do nothing but help our chances.

Also... it's super tough to place western teams. If UW does make it, Portland will be pretty much assured of hosting since it would be a natural spot for teams like BYU, Hawaii, Cal, Denver, etc. to travel to. In the braket I worked out, I had Cal going to Indiana and BYU going to Tennessee. There just isn't a home for those western teams when there were only two pods hosted on the West Coast.

Is any of this making sense? Hmmm...

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Re: NCAA Rule Changes Might Benefit Pilots for Hosting?

Post by Geezaldinho on Thu Oct 16, 2008 7:02 pm

Lots has happened since the last time I posted.

The no travel for #1 seed rule may not have passed muster when it was considered after Connecticut had to travel as a 1 seed in 2006. I could swear it did, but I could be wrong (gasp).

I did find the NCAA announcement of the new travel policies in my search however. It's got more in it than just the 400 mile rule, so I think it's worth posting in its entirety. There are some possibly important implications for Portland.




The Division I Championships/Sports Management Cabinet has endorsed a recommendation from the NCAA staff to increase the travel-policy mileage limitation from 350 to 400 miles for all upcoming fall championships.

The cabinet, which met September 16-17 in Indianapolis, also supported a recommendation that increases the policy regarding ground commute from the nearest airport to the championships site from 120 to 150 miles and gives the NCAA travel staff the discretion to increase the mileage (minimally) if necessary and reasonable.

Cabinet members agreed to examine the effectiveness of these new policies, which could save about $500,000, and will solicit feedback from their institutions and conferences before considering whether to implement the changes for winter and spring championships (except for men’s and women’s basketball).

The cabinet supported the recommendations in light of a request from the NCAA Executive Committee to seek efficiencies to mitigate rising fuel costs reduced flight capacity. All three NCAA divisions are undertaking such a review.

Travel costs in Division I have increased 31 percent (around $7 million) from the last academic year and almost 58 percent in the last three years. The national office is projecting an increase of $6 to $7 million in Division I travel expenses for next year.

The airline industry also projects about 20 million fewer seats to be available on domestic flights during the fourth quarter of 2008 compared to last year.

NCAA President Myles Brand told the 31-member cabinet, “Your task is to make the championships more successful, more collegiate, more representative of our universities and college sports within a constrained budget.”

Jeff Schemmel, chair of the cabinet and director of athletics at San Diego State, said he and his peers are ready to handle the challenges.

“This cabinet welcomes that opportunity,” said Schemmel. “We can’t think parochially anymore. We need to think big picture. This cabinet will take (Brand’s) words to heart. Clearly, our charge is to think globally and strategically.”

During its meeting, the cabinet discussed two “tiers” of additional recommendations from the NCAA staff geared toward mitigating the travel challenges.

The first tier, which did not require cabinet approval and will be implemented immediately by the national office staff, includes the following:

Championships managers and sport committees will consider revising selection times to allow a minimum of 48 hours between selection release and the time a team has to depart for a competition site and between rounds of the championship. Additionally, championships managers and sport committees will attempt to avoid obvious capacity conflicts in air travel (for example, common Spring Break destinations mid-March through mid-April and high-cost cities with minimal capacity), and practice sessions at the championships site will be scheduled with cost-effective travel arrangements in mind.
The NCAA will reimburse airline baggage charges for a maximum of two bags per traveler, including bags containing sports equipment.
When reasonable bulk-ship options are available, the NCAA shall reimburse the lesser of the bulk-ship amount or the incremental cost by an airline or charter transporting the travel party. However, before implementing this policy, the NCAA will explore whether more efficient modes of bulk shipping exist.
Sport committees will implement the use of NCAA “bracketing” software to determine brackets and preliminary match-ups. The information will not be the sole or even the primary driver in the bracketing process.
NCAA staff will continue to work with commercial airlines and charter companies to enhance or expand current discounts.
The cabinet also considered an additional tier of recommendations but deferred action pending membership review:

Increase the travel policy mileage-limitation from 300 miles to 350 miles for Division I men’s and women’s basketball and increase the policy regarding ground commute from the nearest airport to the championships site from 120 to 150 miles.
Limit seeded teams to 25 percent of the bracket and require all sports (excluding men’s and women’s basketball) to adhere to the cabinet’s seeding/pairing principles. This includes a requirement that teams should be placed in brackets per NCAA Bylaw 31.1.3.2.5 (geographically).
In sports other than men’s and women’s basketball, limit the mandated avoidance of conference match-ups to first-round games. For example, it would be permissible for teams from the same conference to play against each other in the second game of a regional.
Establish a policy that discourages but does not prohibit selection of championship sites in high-cost destinations or remote locations from areas of heavy concentration of the likely participants.
The policy would also discourage championships being hosted outside the continental U.S.
Establish a policy in sports other than football that would exclude championship travel or competition Wednesday through Sunday of Thanksgiving week. If competition on this weekend is necessary, the contest should be scheduled to avoid air travel or require air travel Thursday, Saturday or Sunday. Wednesday air transportation would not be permitted.
Impose a moratorium on bracket-expansion requests through the 2012-13 championship cycle.

The highlighted portion could be good and bad for Portland. It does mean that Gonzaga, should they ever make the tournament, could be a co-host for the first regional. The languge of the second part of that seems designed to eliminate the NorthWest entirely from consideration for a championship.

I call it the "Not You, Portland" rule

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Re: NCAA Rule Changes Might Benefit Pilots for Hosting?

Post by Geezaldinho on Thu Oct 16, 2008 7:15 pm

Since the last post included a reference to Bylaw 31.1.3.2.5 (geographically) , I thought I'd include it with another Bylaw for comparison.


31.1.3.2.5 Nonrevenue Championship Site Assignment. In championships that do not generate
revenue, pairings shall be based primarily on the teams’ geographical proximity to one another, regardless of their region, in order to avoid air travel in preliminary rounds whenever possible. Teams’ seeding relative to one another may be taken into consideration when establishing pairings if such a pairing does not result in air travel that otherwise could be avoided.

The interesting part about the new ruling emphasizing geography is the word "primarily". It doesn't totally exclude the criteria in another another Bylaw that enhances NCAA bottom line, the purported goal of this ruling. also, at Portland and at the College Cup, the championships DO generate revenue.

[size=9]31.3.2.1 Criteria for site determination.The following criteria are to be used in the evaluation of
sites for all competition in NCAA championships:
(a) Quality and availability of the facility and other necessary accommodations;
(b) Revenue potential (e.g., a financial guarantee or guideline that ensures fiscal responsibility and is ap-
propriate for the particular event, as recommended by the governing sports committee and approved
by the Championships/Sports Management Cabinet); (Revised: 11/1/07 e
(c) Attendance history and potential;

(d) Geographical location; and
(e) Championships operating costs. (Revised: 11/1/01)

Geography is only one of five criteria in this Bylaw.

OK, you tell me, which bylaw is determinant, and which better meets Miles Brands directive "to make the championships more successful, more collegiate, more representative of our universities and college sports within a constrained budget.”


Last edited by Purplegeezer on Thu Oct 16, 2008 7:24 pm; edited 2 times in total

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Re: NCAA Rule Changes Might Benefit Pilots for Hosting?

Post by Stonehouse on Thu Oct 16, 2008 7:21 pm

Very interesting... if the conference opponents not playing each other rule is only limited to the first round, then all of that work I did this afternoon is totally moot. Give me Beer!

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Re: NCAA Rule Changes Might Benefit Pilots for Hosting?

Post by Geezaldinho on Thu Oct 16, 2008 7:30 pm

Stonehouse wrote:Very interesting... if the conference opponents not playing each other rule is only limited to the first round, then all of that work I did this afternoon is totally moot. Give me Beer!

Not entirely. That's in the second set of new regulations that hasn't been implemented yet, pending member review.

(Your new avatar is really growing on me -- wanna trade?)

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Re: NCAA Rule Changes Might Benefit Pilots for Hosting?

Post by Stonehouse on Thu Oct 16, 2008 7:33 pm

Ha ha... no, I think I'll stick with the Groovy Coop for a while. Smile

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Re: NCAA Rule Changes Might Benefit Pilots for Hosting?

Post by UPSoccerFanatic on Thu Oct 16, 2008 9:38 pm

Stonehouse, I agree that your study is relevant for this year. May be the only year for which your study matters, but it's also the only year that matters right now anyway!

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