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Men's Basketball - State of the Program

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Post by up7587 on Sun Apr 07, 2019 10:53 am

DoubleDipper wrote:
up7587 wrote:What is that podcast he frequently guests?
It's called Marching to Madness...here's the link to Episode 361, with Coach Bob Cantu:

http://collegehoopswatch.com/2019/04/05/marching-to-madness-episode-361-coach-bob-cantu/

I haven't listened to the podcast yet, and I doubt he even addresses UP basketball, but I'm confident Bob provides a lot of insight from his 23 years of coaching...

Cantu predicted UVA and Texas Tech for the final two, mainly based on his knowledge and respect for their coaches. Guess we'd better take his prediction of UVA winning it all. There was zero discussion of his personal situation.
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Post by DoubleDipper on Sun Apr 07, 2019 11:06 am

bullwinkle wrote:-  I think Cantu was dismissed because he was as candid with Terry, and perhaps Leykam, as he was with fans (which we loved about him).  
Yes, Bob thought he owed it to the team, the school, and himself to speak-up when he didn't agree with the head coach.
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Post by up7587 on Sun Apr 07, 2019 12:33 pm

It is interesting, if as alleged the assistant coaches are not listened to, that Cantu seems to have wanted to remain at UP. Not sure what to make of that.

Also, this past season broke the juju of Cantu's lucky shirt, when he guaranteed a win based on wearing it, but we lost. May reduce his market value without it. jocolor
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Post by DoubleDipper on Sun Apr 07, 2019 2:35 pm

up7587 wrote:It is interesting, if as alleged the assistant coaches are not listened to, that Cantu seems to have wanted to remain at UP.  Not sure what to make of that.  
Honestly, I believe he thought he would eventually move into the head coaching position...
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Post by wrv on Sun Apr 07, 2019 10:15 pm

If the speculation is correct that Cantu was terminated because he spoke truth to power, it is a sad commentary on Coach Porter and, for different reasons, on the assistants who remain.

Troubled times.

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Post by blacksheep on Mon Apr 08, 2019 9:22 am

wrv wrote:If the speculation is correct that Cantu was terminated because he spoke truth to power, it is a sad commentary on Coach Porter and, for different reasons, on the assistants who remain.

Troubled times.

I love how we all like to assume why someone was terminated. Cantu has been overly frank in his communication for years. This is not a new thing.

I'm not saying you are wrong, but certainly after a season like we had, you would expect some change of direction in the coaching staff. Since there are a million reasons not to fire Porter, lets try a change at assistant.

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Post by wrv on Mon Apr 08, 2019 10:04 am

It is not my speculation about why Cantu was fired, but the speculation of others. I smile at your "change the assistant," as a cure to what ails the program, but then this is not a Marx Brother's movie.


Whatever anybody thinks about coach Cantu's termination, the far more important question is whether under the circumstances this program can be competitive next year and in the years to come.

I have my doubts.

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Post by DoubleDipper on Mon Apr 08, 2019 11:40 am

I'm guessing few think Coach Cantu was fired only because he spoke-up, that was his responsibility as an assistant, and after 20+ years on the job he knows the head coach is the "decider," but for fans his candid assessments were a refreshing change.

As for next year and beyond...it can't get much worse, can it?  Shocked

After the smoke clears and we find out which players have departed and who's been added to the roster, and we find out who the new assistant coach is, we might get some idea of the direction of the program, but I don't think any of us will believe statements like, "6th place or better," or "competitive in every game," as we've been teased with before.

Tyler Geving and Ben Johnson are talented and experienced coaches who have had success in the past, and Scott Leykam has reaffirmed his commitment to get the program back on track, but without an infusion of talent, a coaching emphasis on player development, and a head coach who can earn the trust and confidence of his players, staff, and fans, this program is going nowhere...

I haven't given up, and I'll continue to support the school I love and the student-athletes who work so hard to get better and win, but for those fans who will not return until bigger changes are made, I don't blame you!
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Post by blacksheep on Mon Apr 08, 2019 3:36 pm

wrv wrote:It is not my speculation about why Cantu was fired, but the speculation of others. I smile at your "change the assistant," as a cure to what ails the program, but then this is not a Marx Brother's movie.


Whatever anybody thinks about coach Cantu's termination, the far more important question is whether under the circumstances this program can be competitive next year and in the years to come.

I have my doubts.

Never meant to single you out. Just one of those things that if enough people say it, it becomes true.

Never said changing assistants was a cure, just that I wasn't surprised to see it. TP needs to take a long look at why things aren't working and what to do to fix them. My guess is that he will find most of those things by looking in the mirror, but I'm also sure it's not all on him.
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Post by bullwinkle on Tue Apr 09, 2019 5:23 pm

DoubleDipper wrote:I'm guessing few think Coach Cantu was fired only because he spoke-up, that was his responsibility as an assistant, and after 20+ years on the job he knows the head coach is the "decider," but for fans his candid assessments were a refreshing change.

As for next year and beyond...it can't get much worse, can it?  Shocked

After the smoke clears and we find out which players have departed and who's been added to the roster, and we find out who the new assistant coach is, we might get some idea of the direction of the program, but I don't think any of us will believe statements like, "6th place or better," or "competitive in every game," as we've been teased with before.

Tyler Geving and Ben Johnson are talented and experienced coaches who have had success in the past, and Scott Leykam has reaffirmed his commitment to get the program back on track, but without an infusion of talent, a coaching emphasis on player development, and a head coach who can earn the trust and confidence of his players, staff, and fans, this program is going nowhere...

I haven't given up, and I'll continue to support the school I love and the student-athletes who work so hard to get better and win, but for those fans who will not return until bigger changes are made, I don't blame you!

Direct and Diplomatic DD. Thank you

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Post by DoubleDipper on Wed Apr 17, 2019 12:51 pm

Most of us have lamented the lack of interaction and sharing of information between the coaches and the fans compared to the Reveno era, but it turns out we're not alone at being left in the dark.

Yesterday I was talking to one of the players, and asked what the "feeling" was amongst his teammates on the dismissal of Coach Cantu.

He reacted:

"Coach Cantu was fired?"
"I hadn't heard that."
"Wow!"

The player I spoke with was recruited by Coach Cantu...
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Post by blacksheep on Wed Apr 17, 2019 1:37 pm

DoubleDipper wrote:Most of us have lamented the lack of interaction and sharing of information between the coaches and the fans compared to the Reveno era, but it turns out we're not alone at being left in the dark.

Yesterday I was talking to one of the players, and asked what the "feeling" was amongst his teammates on the dismissal of Coach Cantu.

He reacted:

"Coach Cantu was fired?"
"I hadn't heard that."
"Wow!"

The player I spoke with was recruited by Coach Cantu...

How is that even possible?  Are the players not doing off season work with the staff (you know, player development)?
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Post by bullwinkle on Wed Apr 17, 2019 8:53 pm

DoubleDipper wrote:Most of us have lamented the lack of interaction and sharing of information between the coaches and the fans compared to the Reveno era, but it turns out we're not alone at being left in the dark.....

He reacted:

"Coach Cantu was fired?"
"I hadn't heard that."
"Wow!"

I have exactly the same reaction:  Wow!  What a sad commentary on the state of the program.  How do you build a team without sharing and processing news like that?

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Post by PilotNut on Wed Apr 17, 2019 9:54 pm

I would hope that the player was responding this way not because it was actually news, but rather a way to not have to discuss it or share something he was not comfortable sharing.

If it was actually news, then I have a whole new level of concern.

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Post by DoubleDipper on Mon Jan 13, 2020 1:48 pm

I found it interesting that of the 30 Oregon prep players now playing D1 basketball, three of the best performers have UP ties...

Malcolm Porter...current player
Isaac Bonton...one time UP commit turned away by TP...now at WSU.
Jazz Johnson...one time UP player who left after 1 year playing for TP...now at Nevada

Also on the list is Joseph Smoyer, who spent 2 years at UP playing for TP and is now at Columbia, and Markus Golder, who wanted to come to UP after graduating from Valparaiso, but ended up at PSU.

It wouldn't surprise me if UP is still keeping an eye on one-time UP recruit and former Jefferson player, Kamaka Hepa, who went to Texas, but is seeing very little playing time there.

https://www.oregonlive.com/sports/j66j-2020/01/713f9f77ec9451/mens-college-basketball-where-former-oregon-prep-stars-play-at-the-division-1-level-in-201920.html
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Post by Dean Murdoch on Mon Jan 13, 2020 2:58 pm

DoubleDipper wrote:It wouldn't surprise me if UP is still keeping an eye on one-time UP recruit and former Jefferson player, Kamaka Hepa, who went to Texas, but is seeing very little playing time there.

Interesting. Just checked in on Hepa, looks like he got essentially zero playing time up until four games ago - and then he suddenly vaults into the starting lineup and is playing 25 minutes a night since.

The guy that ended up at Northern Arizona, Brooks DeBisschop, has turned into a very good player at the Big Sky level.

One other thing caught my eye, in the blurb about Marcus Tsohonis:

Tsohonis has played in three games in his first season at Washington, scoring three points (on his lone three-point attempt) in 15 minutes of action, but is expected to redshirt.

Okay, does this mean redshirt rules have changed? Tsohonis played in three games, and then a couple weeks later the coach announced that he'd decided to have him redshirt the season. Obviously there was no season-ending injury involved given that he was taken OFF redshirt a few days ago, so can players now get in a few games and still redshirt? That would make sense, but common sense and NCAA rules don't always go hand-in-hand.

I'm hoping the rules have indeed changed, because that would make me feel better about Cody Collinsworth using up an entire season of college basketball to play limited minutes against two non-D1 teams.
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Post by DoubleDipper on Mon Jan 13, 2020 3:19 pm

Dean Murdoch wrote:One other thing caught my eye, in the blurb about Marcus Tsohonis:

Tsohonis has played in three games in his first season at Washington, scoring three points (on his lone three-point attempt) in 15 minutes of action, but is expected to redshirt.

Okay, does this mean redshirt rules have changed? Tsohonis played in three games, and then a couple weeks later the coach announced that he'd decided to have him redshirt the season. Obviously there was no season-ending injury involved given that he was taken OFF redshirt a few days ago, so can players now get in a few games and still redshirt? That would make sense, but common sense and NCAA rules don't always go hand-in-hand.
I also read in USA Today that Coach Hopkins said he would redshirt Tsohonis after he played in three games...
USA Today wrote:Hopkins said Washington has decided to have freshman guard Marcus Tsohonis redshirt this season. Tsohonis had appeared in just three games and played a total of 15 minutes.
Can't do that coach!! He must share an office with the football coaches to even be thinking that.

I'm guessing someone must have clued him in, because after playing against Maine, Montana and USD in November, Tsohonis all of a sudden showed up in UW's loss to Cal this past Saturday.
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Post by Dean Murdoch on Mon Jan 13, 2020 4:08 pm

They “made the decision to pull him off redshirt” when Quade Green became academically ineligible.

Hopkins is in his third year as the head coach at UW and has coached at the D1 level for 25 years. I find it hard to believe he’d have this basic rule of eligibility wrong, but I also don’t see anything about redshirt rules changing. You’d think there would have been some article somewhere about it.
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Post by DoubleDipper on Mon Jan 13, 2020 4:44 pm

Being a Power 5/6 school, they were probably going to kneecap him and take an injury redshirt...or at least come up with some fabrication...although it's interesting "injury" wasn't mentioned in the initial report.

The rules haven't changed for basketball like they did for football...but I doubt those football redshirt rules (4 games and still be able to redshirt) will last another year.  

To me, it would seem 1 game for football and 3 games for basketball before taking a redshirt would be much more reasonable.  As it is, just one appearance in a game (even if only 1 second's worth of court time), that is NOT an exhibition, eliminates a D1 basketball player's ability to redshirt...unless he/she takes a Medical Hardship Exemption (injury redshirt.)

Under the MHE, a player cannot appear in more than 30% of the team's scheduled contests, and must sustain the documented season ending injury before the halfway point of the season...
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Post by up7587 on Tue Jan 14, 2020 8:35 am

An interesting tweet on 01/13 without any context:
@_isaiah_white wrote:So happy I chose to come to Portland
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Post by DoubleDipper on Wed Jan 22, 2020 11:27 pm

Cody Collinsworth has left the team and is moving back to Texas.

Not a surprise really, it's too bad his 15 minutes of playing time over two games ate up an entire year of eligibility...

Hugh, and now Cody...it's one thing to sit on the bench of a winner, but to not be given an opportunity to contribute during UP games has got to be very discouraging.

It's my understanding he'll be attending a JUCO close to his home.
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Post by DoubleDipper on Fri Jan 24, 2020 11:08 am

FloridaPilot wrote:I think the apathy speaks volumes at this point.
I will admit to occasionally checking the score of the men's game against LMU last night while attending the women's game, but it was without any optimism or great interest.

I will continue to attend games in a show of support for the players, but this mediocrity on the part of the Men's Basketball program has got to end its long run, and that won't happen unless the UP Board of Regents and the UP President step-in and take action...
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Post by DoubleDipper on Fri Jan 24, 2020 11:14 am

up7587 wrote:An interesting tweet on 01/13 without any context:
@_isaiah_white wrote:So happy I chose to come to Portland
I asked Isaiah about that tweet, and he told me he really likes his teammates, the school, and the city of Portland compared to his previous experiences...and of course at the top of his list of reasons for liking Portland so much is his girlfriend!! Very Happy
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Post by up7587 on Fri Jan 24, 2020 5:50 pm

It's always a girl.
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