Re: WC Play So Far

by Geezaldinho Mon Jun 21, 2010 9:42 am

DaTruRochin wrote:Aside: just saw a ref issue a yellow to a Chilean player for simulation, methinks Fifa is going to clamp down on this for the rest of the cup seeing that for all the complaining the vuvuzuela and whining about the ball, gamesmanship has been the main cause tainting the outcomes...

We'll see. That was the fourth simulation foul I've seen. There may have been more. It hasn't stopped the " I've been shot" antics so far. The red card in this game also involved some embellishment, I argue. There was an elbow to the neck, but There wasn't enough to warrant hands over the eyes.

Embellishment was certainly the difference between a yellow and a red.

A yellow for each player might have been more appropriate if stopping embellishment was on the agenda.

Who won there?

by **DaTruRochin** Mon Jun 21, 2010 9:54 am

Fair point, that straight red was definitely a yellow, but nothing more than that... But with the blown wide open chance off a brilliant build up, it seems karma was not working in the Swiss' favor, even if their shorthanded effort definitely deserved a tie.

by Geezaldinho Mon Jun 21, 2010 10:17 am

DaTruRochin wrote:
Yeah, but some might argue said gamesmanship was brought to the league by soccer players, or players that grew up playing a la Vlade Divac, Manu Ginobli, etc. (Although John Stockton and Dennis Rodman don't exactly fit that mold, you could easily argue that the eastern Euros and S. Americans have taken it to the next level)

http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/page2/story?page=neumann/070607

famous latin American and European NBA floppers

#1 Guillermo Lambeer
#3 Juan Stockton
#4 Reginaldo Miller
#5 Dino Rodman
#8 Danielito Ainge
#9 Rajinho Bell
#10 Roberto Horry

honorable mentions:

Shanaldo Battier
Andreus Bogut
Brucildo Bowen
Samuelito Cassell
Reginaldo Evans
Mundo S. Libre ( the google translator might help)

by Stonehouse Mon Jun 21, 2010 10:22 am

Of course I'll concede that "simulation" happens in other sports... flopping for charges in basketball being the easiest thing to point out.

But soccer takes it to a whole different level. For whatever reason, referees react to seeing a player writhing on the ground by pulling out yellow cards and red cards, which can swing the balance of not only the game currently being played but the next game as well.

If you flop for a charge in basketball, it's a split-second decision... writhing in agony on the court is not going to get the referee to award an technical or a flagrant or kick someone out of the game.

Maybe the problem is the whole yellow/red card thing... clearly FIFA wants to crack down on rough play and has directed referees to give more cards, but with the seeming arbitrariness of which fouls warrant cards and not and with the problem of "simulation" clearly causing problems, maybe it would make more sense to move away from the cards and toward an NBA-like foul system. That would give more leeway and could possibly be more fair.

Do that, and add in a real post-game evaluation of video by a fourth official, and maybe, just maybe, you'll start to see some positive changes.

But really the problem is FIFA... for whatever reason, they revel in the controversy.

by Geezaldinho Mon Jun 21, 2010 10:25 am

Stonehouse wrote:

But really the problem is FIFA... for whatever reason, they revel in the controversy.

I agree there. Sepp Blatter has even said as much.

by Stonehouse Mon Jun 21, 2010 10:39 am

When even David Stern comes out and credits you for bringing flopping to the NBA, I think you really have to tip the hat to Vlade Divac:

by **DaTruRochin** Mon Jun 21, 2010 10:58 am

Any excuse to bring out that video, eh? (Not that I'm complaining, one of my faves)

Because of the pace of the game, and the size of the field it is kind of hard for the officials to see everything that goes on obviously. I think the 4th (or I guess 5th official) in a booth to watch for things like offsides, flopping, goals crossing lines, etc would be a very good thing that wouldn't necessarily take that much time. I mean ESPN seems to have a pretty good system for creating a quick offside visualization...

As for the flopping, I think the only way to really discourage it is substantial fining, or creating some sort of a de-merit system involving video review and punishment toward accusers. There is a difference between exaggerating a legitimate foul and writhing in pain/grabbing your face when you get nicked in the shin. Perhaps they do a system where you get a certain amount of warnings and have to miss games, or donate $$$ to charity or whatever. I think in someways the NBA has it right with the technical foul accumulation rules, although their fine records where you get 15K for a hard foul, but over 100K plus if a J VanGundy or M Cuban questions officiating... Speaking of side rants here's a semi-related take: http://deadspin.com/5567321/tim-donaghy-on-game-7-how-the-nba-influences-a-series?skyline=true&s=i

by Stonehouse Mon Jun 21, 2010 11:01 am

Ha Ha... you know, the funny thing is that I posted a Vlade video and then tacked on that Mutombo one at the end, just because it is so funny. I fixed it now. Smile

by **DaTruRochin** Mon Jun 21, 2010 11:14 am

Um I demand you put the Mutumbo video back up, no matter how little it has to do with anything.

by footyfan Mon Jun 21, 2010 11:21 am

Geezaldinho wrote:the Fabiano hand balls makes Maradona's hand of God seem like small stuff. These were not quick or hidden plays, but were right in the open and in pretty slow motion.

and the ref pointing to the arm and laughing :

the whole video sequence is here, but I can't embed it
http://tag11mac.posterous.com/luis-fabiano-commits-2-handballs-and-lies-to

Mardaonna's "hand Of God" was and still is the worst of all time! That said..The Italians and many of the Central and South American countries actually feel it's an important part of the game to decieve the referee.

FIFA has a referee interview session scheduled for Monday as a normal part of the World Cup Press opportunities. Coulibaly was expected to get grilled as the highlight of the event, but he may take a back seat to the Frenchman Lannoy.

by PurplePrideTrumpet Mon Jun 21, 2010 11:28 am

The entire CIV-BRA game really went downhill in the last 20 minutes. The referee lost control. Yes, poor helpless Keita nearly got decapitated by Kaka (sarcasm), but he probably shouldn't have even been out there since not a minute before he went studs up and landed on a Brazilian's leg. No call there.

by **DaTruRochin** Mon Jun 21, 2010 11:53 am

Turn on Spain/Honduras if you need a fix of attractive soccer, David Villa already has an absolutely beautiful goal... Can I say right now that I am absolutely giddy to see he and Messi perform some Catalan magic next season? (Too many absolutelys, I realize...)

(Just ignore the Honduran stepping on shoelaces and David Villa b-slap retaliations off the ball...)

by PurplePrideTrumpet Mon Jun 21, 2010 12:40 pm

Villa is making it look easy. He got one from the top of the 18 just as the half started.

What's the big deal about soccer? It's so boring. Hardly anyone scores. jocolor

by **DaTruRochin** Mon Jun 21, 2010 1:28 pm

Now THIS is a goal...

by mattywizz Mon Jun 21, 2010 6:40 pm

Geezaldinho wrote:Mundo S. Libre ( the google translator might help)

I don't know how to use google translator, so I am going to guess...Joe Barry Carrol!!!

Back to the topic. Just saw the highlight show from today and am now watching the Stagg Chilli-Swiss Miss match. That red card was brutal. Did anyone else see that the Swissy actually did hit a Chilly about 5 seconds before the flop that "earned" him the red. He was hit harder, it actually did cock his head back, but he kept on going. In my opinon, that play should not have even garnered a yellow (well, maybe for the Chillyan).

That Ronaldo goal made me think of Robertson, the cowboy from D2 and his fancy puck handling skills.

by Geezaldinho Tue Jun 22, 2010 9:28 am

Prepare for the end times.

France is out after losing to SA 2-1
Uruguay beat Mexico 1-0 as I expected.
Mexico and Uruguay advance, Mexico will almost certainly play Argentina next,

On the postgame, Alexi Lalas goes on and on about what a great team Mexico is and what fun to watch they are.
Then he says "I can't believe I said that about Mexico"

Me neither.

by **DaTruRochin** Tue Jun 22, 2010 10:31 am

Haha after the second SA goal I got a text from my brother saying "This is why you don't eff with the Irish..." And then for some reason I started singing "Karma Chameleon"....

But agreed, I've found myself pulling for Mexico too, I mean once you get past the bags of human effluence being tossed at opposing fans they aren't bad at all. Plus I like yelling out "Chicharitooooooooo" at random (and plan on doing it a lot over the next few years...) On a side note, I'm sad that I won't be hearing the name Tshabalala regularly anymore....

by Geezaldinho Tue Jun 22, 2010 1:29 pm

All is right with the world.

Though they rested 7 starters,

Argentina comes out with a 2-0 victory on goals from Demichelis and a Messi shot rebound from 36 year old Martín Palermo. The old geezer can still put them in.

Amazingly, Messi went through group play without a goal. Go figure. It didn't matter, he's still the engine that drives the team.

by PurplePrideTrumpet Tue Jun 22, 2010 1:42 pm

First Blanco, then Palermo. The wily veterans are showing how it's done.

South Korea goes through after drawing 2-2 with Nigeria. Both their goals were a result of Nigeria's Sh!ttu set piece defense.

(Yes, I was waiting to somehow work that in.)

by Geezaldinho Wed Jun 23, 2010 9:30 am

WOW!

USA goes from going home after 90 minutes to winning the Group!

Great outlet from Timmay and a great push forward by the USA speedsters on the counter.

It saved a whole diatribe about goals getting taken away by refs and the offside rule Very Happy

You guys got lucky.

by Geezaldinho Wed Jun 23, 2010 10:14 am

by **PilotNut** Wed Jun 23, 2010 10:29 am

What a boost to soccer in the US... had we not advanced, soccer and it's officiating would have been blasted incessantly (not that the officiating in the US games so far didnt deserve it).

GO USA!

by PurplePrideTrumpet Wed Jun 23, 2010 3:16 pm

Just look at Sunday's Round of 16 matchups:

7 am: Die Mannschaft-The Three Lions

11:30 am: La Albicelestes-El Tri

Four nations with great football traditions, two long-running rivalries, one awesome day.

by onetouchfutbol Wed Jun 23, 2010 5:16 pm

PilotNut wrote:What a boost to soccer in the US... had we not advanced, soccer and it's officiating would have been blasted incessantly (not that the officiating in the US games so far didnt deserve it).

GO USA!

Winning definitely helps, however, I'm not sure how much of a boost this win gives to the sport. It helps to win the group and keep interest high, and I'm ecstatic about the win. The reality though is I think the win is more of a relief than anything. Winning a group for the first time since 1930 is huge and going undefeated is impressive even if there were 2 ties. Our defense still looked kind of shaky though; our defenders take some unnecessary risks at times and it's still pretty easy for forwards to get behind them early in games. I hope we're capable of playing at the Confederacy Cup form on the world's biggest stage; I hope the players can envision it.

For soccer to really thrive in this country, the sport needs both success and money in my humble opinion. MLS payrolls continue to be pocket change compared to the best clubs in the world. It would be great to be able to see a 20-24 year-old top 5 player in their prime in the MLS at some point. But, maybe that's a pipe dream... We're definitely spoiled with player-fans in the northwest, but, this part of the country is definitely different than most of the US...

by Guest Wed Jun 23, 2010 5:23 pm

On other continents, nice comeback by Australia after getting pounded by Germany to get a win and a draw. Lose out on goal diff. A 4-0 loss will do that to you.

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USA Wins Groups!

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