Current state of the program

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Re: Current state of the program

Post by Geezaldinho on Wed Jan 23, 2013 12:41 pm

writerpilot wrote:
oldtimer wrote:Recruiting
D1 rosters are littered with players that come out of the Portland area, just to name a couple that come to mind are Stephen Madison at Idaho (leading scorer or one of the top two), Holt at St Marys, and the Hermanson kid from Lake Oswego that is committed to St Marys. In fact doesnt St Marys have three kids on their roster from Portland?
Reveno has to protect his back yard. Period.


This. I'm not sure if UP just isn't trying hard enough to recruit local talent or is just swinging and missing, but if UP is not even on the radar screens of the top local kids, that is very bad thing.

You need to look at the historical record. UP is doing better in that regard than it ever has.

I can think of YEARS when we had no local players.

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Re: Current state of the program

Post by oldtimer on Wed Jan 23, 2013 12:46 pm

writerpilot wrote:
oldtimer wrote:Recruiting
D1 rosters are littered with players that come out of the Portland area, just to name a couple that come to mind are Stephen Madison at Idaho (leading scorer or one of the top two), Holt at St Marys, and the Hermanson kid from Lake Oswego that is committed to St Marys. In fact doesnt St Marys have three kids on their roster from Portland?
Reveno has to protect his back yard. Period.


This. I'm not sure if UP just isn't trying hard enough to recruit local talent or is just swinging and missing, but if UP is not even on the radar screens of the top local kids, that is very bad thing.

IMHO there is no reason minus a consistent win/loss record that would or should prohibit a local player from staying at home. The Chiles Center is one of the better facilities in the conference especially with the upgrades. If you havent seen them take a look, it is impressive.
The town of Portland is a great city to live in for college. Beautiful campus, things to do, a pro basketball team in town etc.
Im not saying that UP has a shot at the Terrence Jones' of the world but there are a lot more kids in the state of Oregon like Holt and Madison who would be a great fit at UP.

If UP is swinging and missing on these locals then what is the problem? If Rev, Wolfe, Jackson and Pfaff arent on a first name basis with every HS coach in the 5A and 6A teams in the state they need to be. If they arent forming relationships with AAU coaches they need to be. A HS or AAU coach can be invaluable in assisting the staff on landing players. As an example, didnt Sikma, Stohl, Tanner and Ryan all come from the same AAU team? Those are the type of relationships that earn a players commitment.

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Re: Current state of the program

Post by DTLegend on Wed Jan 23, 2013 12:47 pm

1st I'm mean. Now I'm an 8yo. If you disagree with my assessment of the program then pose a counter argument but resorting to name calling is what's not helpful.

If the talent level of the players and the competency of the coaching staff is off limits when evaluating the state of the program then this thread is pointless. The most important element to winning at the D1 level is talent. And whether we want to admit it or not, we don't have that caliber of talent at every position. And I know Rev is a great guy and super smart and has a lot of energy but he's ultimately responsible for evaluating HS talent and convincing that talent to come to UP. And he decided that in our battle against St Mary's, BYU, Gonzaga, etc. that he would put David Carr, David Ahern and Derek Rogers up against Delladova, Pangos and Carlino. Santa Clara, San Diego and LMU decided on Foster, Dee and Ireland. Try doing this same side-by-side comparison with our bigs.

The same way we expect our guys to go out and fight for every basket and rebound, we expect our coach to go out and fight for the best talent available. That we're getting springtime commitments from kids that no other program in our conference are going after means we're settling not fighting tooth and nail for the best players. This isn't a knock on anyone's character. Rev does a great job of recruiting wonderful kids. But can (or even should) they play at this level? The stat sheet says no.

When it comes to recruiting I really think itís more difficult than just identifying top talent and throwing everything you have at that top talent and as Rev alluded to in his interview it's about fit. Hypothetically, letís say 3 years ago Rev and his staff identify Terrance Jones as a top prospect, and guess what? He's from North Portland. So letís spend all of our resources and get him. With the resources you spend trying (and failing) to get him, you've given up resources you could use to get a recruit that could help you long term. That leaves you scrambling to get something late in the period, which isn't impossible, but much more unlikely. So I think there is a balance between evaluating who is available and their interest and making a strategy to go out and get that kid or to give up that kid.

An example of how we are fighting for those types of players: 2015 guard Kendall Small. This is a kid who's getting serious looks from a lot of BCS schools. But as of right now, we're the only offer.

http://espn.go.com/college-sports/basketball/recruiting/player/_/id/142899/kendall-small

I can remember a handful of "highly touted" prospects who we had offered early on and they still said no.

If I remember correctly Rev was regarded as a great recruiter at Stanford. I'm pretty sure he was in charge of recruiting the Lopez twins as well as Landry Fields. I can't say that for sure but he was on the staff that got commitments from those guys.

Hindsight is 20/20 and there are always prospects that fall through the cracks, and guys who are way over hyped. It's about identifying those that fall through the cracks. It's about identifying those prospects before anyone else and getting to them first. It's about seeing potential and recognizing not what we currently need, but what will our needs be like in 2 or 3 years. It's about finding student/athletes who will elevate the program rather than be detrimental to it. I'm not saying that Rev and his staff are great at this, but I know they can do it. I know you say I'm living in the past, but I'm actually looking at body of work. Players at UP who were of WCC quality under Rev: Ravio, Smeulders, Knutson, Campbell, Stohl, Mitrovic, Sikma. On each one of those players I can tell you a high-major team might pass but they each brought something to the table. When building a program you can't just do what I used to do while playing NCAA Basketball 08 and create 5 stud players and force them on your team. It's a process, which can be long, and if we are evaluating Rev and his staff, or the administration on their progress, I think that the overall trend is upward.

In my opinion here is how we got to where we are, and remember this is speculation.:

2010-2011 the recruiting class was:
Ryan, Korey, Riley, Tim Douglas, John, Tanner
Why they were brought in:
So we bring in a new point guard that has handles and a decent shot. Could fill TJ's shoes. We bring in Tanner as the sharpshooter plus he has a year to sit behind Jared, two behind Nem. We bring in Ryan as a strong supporting role. He does the dirty work and is a great piece to add. Korey is ultra athletic, and we need athleticism. John is a work in progress. Could end up like a Kramer, could also not progress much. Riley shows flashes of athleticism and his height is there. Project for sure.
What actually happened:
Tim has a promising year. We can see the future. Nem steps up BIG and asserts himself as a true leader of the team for next season. Should take pressure off rest of team. Riley has flashes. Ryan is consistent battling and should fit nicely in his role. Tanner is inconsistent. Korey still is just potential. John redshirts.

2011-2012
Kevin, David, Thomas, Dorian Cason, Derrick
Why they were brought in:
Bring in Kevin to take over the role of go to guy. Nem is a senior so he won't be thrust into the roll but still should be go to guy by sophomore season. David comes in as a local recruit and he should be able to add some consistency and depth as a shooter. Thomas is a skilled big man who can tag team with Riley and Ryan and Dorian to form a formidable four man rotation for the 4 and 5 spots. Their skills compliment well. Derrick should add a solid backup point guard. Has the skills to facilitate and maintain games when Tim is out.
What actually happened:
Loss of three point shot/senior leadership hurt way more than expected. Nem struggled in his role as go-to guy. Rough schedule early on stunts confidence. David and Derrick are forced to play more than expected because Tim is turning the ball over way too much and Eric Waterford is injured. Thomas, Kevin, and David all show flashes of what can be but lack consistency. Dorian plays well, but still seems immature. Team struggles even more down the stretch. Nothing really goes right.

2012-2013
Bryce, Jake, Oskars, David Ahern
Why they were brought in:
Jake is a solid Oregon player who is a winner. May be a bit undersized but a typical Rev recruit. Bryce and Oskars were later in the recruiting season. Had to change some expectations/plans because of Tim transferring. We were expecting to recruit a backup PG that could spend a year growing before being put in the lineup but thatís what happens. Both players show athleticism and strong transition. Should play well with Kevin. David Ahern is a walk-on, the first to actually see meaningful minutes under coach Rev.

As you can see things donít always go as planned, and itís the coachís job to adjust as pieces start to fall out and I think that we are in a decent position considering where we could be. Look I understand that right now is frustrating. Recruiting has been frustrating. But I trust Rev. I trust his staff. I know thatís my opinion, and you are more than entitled to yours. I just feel like you make is sound so easy that anyone could come in here and change things around in no time. Make it seem like every one of our players are scrubs which I don't think they are.

Sorry for all that haha.

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Re: Current state of the program

Post by Geezaldinho on Wed Jan 23, 2013 12:52 pm

I heard we didn't offer Terence Jones any free tattoos.

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Re: Current state of the program

Post by oldtimer on Wed Jan 23, 2013 12:52 pm

DTLegend= Post of the year.

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Re: Current state of the program

Post by oldtimer on Wed Jan 23, 2013 12:53 pm

PurpleGeezer wrote:I heard we didn't offer Terence Jones any free tattoos.

Spoke too soon, tie for post of the year!!!

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Re: Current state of the program

Post by Guest on Wed Jan 23, 2013 12:58 pm

1) I agree that talking about the players themselves is an off limits topic at this point. They are all D-1 caliber in one way or another and I enjoy watching them play. I agree that we need to recruit heavily in Portland, but you need to include the rest of Oregon as well. There are great basketball players in this state coming from schools outside of the Portland metro area as well.

2) I think the offense needs to push the tempo a bit. This half-court style is slow and tough to watch. I'm not talking about a Kentucky offense, but a bit more balanced. We have a lot of guys (K. Bailey, Korey, Oskars, Derrick) who I think play their best in transition when things are faster and they can make quick cuts that they would otherwise not make from half court. You could argue about turnovers, but we commit lots of turnovers from the half court style offense too (i.e. when you stare at the person you are going to pass to the defense catches on or you try to dump it inside to a big man, but you have to lob it over two defenders). The movement to the basket that Kevin makes could eat up a defense in transition, but from half court it just seems wild compared to everything else.

All that being said: MOTION on offense. It creates opportunity.

3) In terms of that last scholarship. I echo the sentiment of getting another big man for reasons previously discussed.

4) Lastly, there are many programs in way worse shape than you might think we are. We are lucky to not be in their position. I'm not saying we should accept where we are, though. It is fair to expect more. At least we are in a state with only four D-1 programs. So, we are somewhat relevant even if it seems like we are not. Also, be thankful we are not on the East Coast where there might be 10 different D-1 schools in your state playing in 10 different conferences.

That is all.

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Re: Current state of the program

Post by oldtimer on Wed Jan 23, 2013 1:11 pm

An_Undergrad wrote "3) In terms of that last scholarship. I echo the sentiment of getting another big man for reasons previously discussed."

I dont disagree that we could use a big man (cant ever have too many bigs) but let me see if I am getting this right.
David hasnt even had surgery yet to repair his MCL and ACL. Considering a typical return rate for a basketball player at 10 months to a year he will miss most if not all of next season.
That leaves us with a 5'8" true freshman as the only PG. Is that going to be enough? Im not saying he cant play or anything like that but doesnt the team need two? Not to say that Bryce or Oskars cant play there some but to date they havent.
I would think the imperative signing would be a PG, back to my previous point of maybe a Junior College kid that can step right in and play.



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Re: Current state of the program

Post by bctigard on Wed Jan 23, 2013 1:36 pm

oldtimer wrote:
Reveno has to protect his back yard. Period.

Does anyone have any direct knowledge regarding the staff's local recruiting efforts? Would love to hear the inside scoop!

Also, a suggestion:

The program should start young! There are plenty of youth leagues for kids in middle school and even elementary school in the local area. These kids are thirsting for a direct connection to college programs. If we plant the seed young, perhaps some of these tikes might grow up to be competitive players that have U of P on there short list. Just a long term suggestion Smile I'm sure that they are doing this to a certain extent, but what I experience in SW seems to reflect that there are some areas that are not falling under the scope of U of P's influence.

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Re: Current state of the program

Post by up7587 on Wed Jan 23, 2013 5:38 pm

I am reading all your comments. I can tell there is no apathy among us. Plenty of passion as fans.

I have tempered my comments recently, specifically to avoid calling out my perceptions of the weaknessess of individual players. Reading GH's comment below, it did remind me of the comment I linked below.

goldhelmet wrote:
* Yes, keep it classy, but at the same time, this isn't a bunch of parents talking about their little league kids. This is D1 basketball.
It's Division 1!

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Re: Current state of the program

Post by mattywizz on Wed Jan 23, 2013 6:31 pm

We need more dogs. We don't want no cats.

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Re: Current state of the program

Post by goldhelmet on Wed Jan 23, 2013 6:40 pm

up7587 wrote:I am reading all your comments. I can tell there is no apathy among us. Plenty of passion as fans.

I have tempered my comments recently, specifically to avoid calling out my perceptions of the weaknessess of individual players. Reading GH's comment below, it did remind me of the comment I linked below.

goldhelmet wrote:
* Yes, keep it classy, but at the same time, this isn't a bunch of parents talking about their little league kids. This is D1 basketball.
It's Division 1!


Wasn't exactly thinking about it quite that way when I wrote it, but that Hawkins rant is hiliarious - thanks, i had forgotten about that one. Actually, I was thinking about a Pilot practice i got a chance to watch back when Chavez was coach, and he angrily threw the ball back to Dionn Holton and shouted, "Come on, this is division 1 basketball !!" I don't know why, but it always stuck with me.

Maybe we should ask Rob if he's interested in getting back in to coaching. Just kidding folks. One of my all time favorite rants is this one:

Come after me..

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Re: Current state of the program

Post by Geezaldinho on Wed Jan 23, 2013 7:17 pm

Wow, and they won the game....

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Re: Current state of the program

Post by pilotram on Wed Jan 23, 2013 7:58 pm

mattywizz wrote:We need more dogs. We don't want no cats.
Mattywizz is doing his part to start 'em young. Look at those two, already in their Pilot gear yelling for coach to put them in!

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Re: Current state of the program

Post by PurplePrideTrumpet on Wed Jan 23, 2013 8:45 pm

goldhelmet wrote:
Maybe we should ask Rob if he's interested in getting back in to coaching. Just kidding folks. One of my all time favorite rants is this one:

Come after me..

If he didn't read the article how did know 3/4 of it was garbage?

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Re: Current state of the program

Post by goldhelmet on Wed Jan 23, 2013 8:50 pm

PurplePrideTrumpet wrote:
goldhelmet wrote:
Maybe we should ask Rob if he's interested in getting back in to coaching. Just kidding folks. One of my all time favorite rants is this one:

Come after me..

If he didn't read the article how did know 3/4 of it was garbage?

Good question. Somehow I don't think anyone was going to call him out on it at that particular moment in time.

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Re: Current state of the program

Post by PurplePrideTrumpet on Wed Jan 23, 2013 8:51 pm

As far as basketball goes I like this one:

When I see you...

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Re: Current state of the program

Post by PilotNut on Thu Jan 24, 2013 11:07 pm

PilotNut wrote:I decided to research WCC regular-season records of recent coaches. I want to make it clear that I am not advocating for a coaching staff change; I am looking for progress/growth in the program, relative to the rest of the WCC:

Larry Steele (7 seasons): 25-73, 0.255
Rob Chavez (7 seasons): 39-59, 0.398
Michael Holton (5 seasons): 20-50, 0.286
Eric Reveno (7th season): 36-55, 0.396 (through the 1/5/12 game @Pepp)

So, currently, we are doing better than Holton & Steele, but slightly worse than Chavez (who also had a WCC tourney championship). I cant imagine that the 0.396 will improve this season, in fact the trend is significantly down the past 2.5 seasons or so.

Just food for thought... are we growing/improving?

I just thought I would update the results. We are now 37-58, 0.389 in WCC play under Rev with tonight's loss vs. USF. The next 3 games are BYU, @SCU, @SMC. pale

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Re: Current state of the program

Post by blacksheep on Fri Jan 25, 2013 9:48 am

Two things from last night that really show we are a long way off from having the school really on board with making the basketball program a top priority.

1. All week I saw lots of Facebook activity from UP regarding the game against BYU. I saw nothing regarding the game last night. Not even an event created inviting all the students. This is how students and young alums get this type of information and nobody bothers to set it up. It would have taken all of 10 minutes for someone in the marketing department. I don't know how much this type of thing impacts attendance, but I know the students didn't show up last night!

2. The board of regents were meeting last night in California. Success of the program starts at the top. If the regents aren't willing to look at a calendar and schedule their meetings accordingly, why would any other department bother. Heck, they could have their meeting coincide with the basketball team playing in California and give them some much needed road support. The annual Christmas party was scheduled on a game night, the students often have dances or other events scheduled on game nights. Maybe the school needs to create a position called Director of Scheduling.


As for the actual game . . . No Comment!

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Re: Current state of the program

Post by PurplePrideTrumpet on Fri Jan 25, 2013 9:57 am

Ah well, I understand there's a dance Saturday. So.

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Re: Current state of the program

Post by goldhelmet on Fri Jan 25, 2013 10:03 am


The low attendance has been a problem for a long time. But the reality is that good players will win regardless of whether there are 7 people in attendance or 5000, and bad players will lose regardless. Yes, there are exceptions, especially in close games laike last night, but would make little difference in the games where we have not even been competitive - which have been plentiful.

Bottom line - We need to identify, recruit, and develop better players on a consistent basis. - not a couple above average players every 4-5 years. That's not going to cut it. Recruting starts and ends with the head coach, but the University administration needs to give the coaches the tools and resources they need to be successful. That is obviously a critical point.

Since this issue has spanned several coaching eras, I'm more inclined to think there are problems at the administrative levels above Reveno.

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Re: Current state of the program

Post by PilotNut on Fri Jan 25, 2013 10:26 am

I have a relatively minor complaint, but something that annoys me. If the U is actively trying to get students and fans to the game in part by presenting a quality product & appealing atmosphere... can we please fix the video boards so they stop freezing up, showing the wrong stats/score/time, etc? That system is 3 years old now, and it is STILL happening? How have we not gone back to the manufacturer and/or software developer and demanded they fix it? It was a problem from day 1! Question At how many other Division 1 basketball arenas would this be acceptable?

I absolutely agree with Blacksheep. Back up your words with actions.

Rev & Leykam talked on the radio about the program being the "front porch" to the U. Well, let's start putting some action & meaning behind the words. If you want people to step through the front door of that porch, you need to make it appealing. Make sure everything works. Have the right people there.

I believe there is general agreement that the #1 thing that could be done to improve the game environment is a rowdy student section.... well, lets back that up with making it happen!!! The student turn out (not counting last night) has really been pretty good, but once in the seats, there has been no apparent effort or leadership from the students themselves or the Athletic Department to get them fired up, leading some chants, etc. That doesn't magically happen--someone has to make it happen. Don't get me wrong--I think the numbers they are getting in the seats are really strong, and that is 90% of the battle! Why not see it through?! Mad This has been an issue for many years, and yet it continues to go unaddressed... and it isn't rocket science!

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Re: Current state of the program

Post by Stonehouse on Fri Jan 25, 2013 10:42 am

PilotNut wrote:...can we please fix the video boards so they stop freezing up, showing the wrong stats/score/time, etc?

It's a very fair question. Though I'm not 100% sure, from what I understand the issues last night happened because the Comcast TV crew somehow ended up unplugging something they shouldn't have, which messed up how the official scoring computer down on press row interfaced with the scoreboard. It's pretty much impossible to fix that while the game is going on because you still have to keep official stats, so it can only be worked on during timeouts and halftime. Thankfully, they were able to figure out what the problem was and then fix it eventually.

Not trying to make excuses... just saying that stuff happens sometimes that is out of your control.

To be fair, the board hasn't had nearly as many problems with freezing and/or incorrect stats this season as in previous ones.

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Re: Current state of the program

Post by DoubleDipper on Fri Jan 25, 2013 12:29 pm

PilotNut wrote:I have a relatively minor complaint, but something that annoys me. If the U is actively trying to get students and fans to the game in part by presenting a quality product & appealing atmosphere... can we please fix the video boards so they stop freezing up, showing the wrong stats/score/time, etc?
I gotta say, the board has been fine, IMO, and the guys working the board and the music from the control booth have been doing a fine job too. No complaints.....




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Re: Current state of the program

Post by up7587 on Fri Jan 25, 2013 12:40 pm

DoubleDipper wrote:
PilotNut wrote:I have a relatively minor complaint, but something that annoys me. If the U is actively trying to get students and fans to the game in part by presenting a quality product & appealing atmosphere... can we please fix the video boards so they stop freezing up, showing the wrong stats/score/time, etc?
I gotta say, the board has been fine, IMO, and the guys working the board and the music from the control booth have been doing a fine job too. No complaints.....
When do you look at the score board? You're too busy trying to get a signal on your tablet! Laughing

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