PSU @ #25 Portland, Wednesday 12/2/09, 7pm

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Re: PSU @ #25 Portland, Wednesday 12/2/09, 7pm

Post by Stonehouse on Thu Dec 03, 2009 10:36 am

As for the crowd... you know... I thought it was pretty good for a Wednesday night, but I agree with PilotNut and some others have said... it was definitely a bit flat. I think part of it was just the overall nervousness of the game being close, but the students also didn't bring it at all... I know it's tough on a Wednesday night, but I think they don't even realize how crucial they are. When they are quiet, the gym is quiet, sometimes uncomfortably so. When they are loud and rowdy, the gym has a buzz and the other fans will sometimes follow their lead.

There were several moments in the final 10 minutes (after we made a bucket, after we just made a defensive stop, etc.) when the team needed the students to get chants/cheers going... but they didn't. Don't we have anyone on our student body who went to all their HS basketball games and lead or even participated in chants? You just get a sixth sense about when you need to start making noise... I guess you have to know the game, but really... very disappointed in the students tonight, though I do have to say they showed up in terrific numbers. We got their butts in the seats... step two is getting them LOUD.

Side note: Huge props to PilotNut for getting the whole crowd going at one of those crucial moments late in the game. Coming out of a time-out and down by one, PilotNut was on his feet exhorting his fellow fans to make some noise and cheer on the Pilots. And they did so... it was the best organic cheer I've heard from the non-students in years. Job very well done! Unfortunately, I think we got a shot clock violation on that posession, but that's neither here nor there. Crying or Very sad

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Re: PSU @ #25 Portland, Wednesday 12/2/09, 7pm

Post by ShipstadPilot11 on Thu Dec 03, 2009 10:57 am

Could we have used an athletic 6'3" guard last night to come off the bench and provide a spark when we were looking flat?

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Re: PSU @ #25 Portland, Wednesday 12/2/09, 7pm

Post by PilotNut on Thu Dec 03, 2009 11:03 am

RiseUP wrote:I don't know about the rest of you but I was disgusted with the student section and the crowd overall... We definitely had the fans but the only ones who could be heard were the PSU fans. That was even before PSU took the lead. Is the best the student section could do when coming down the final stretch of the game up by a couple to chant oooOOOOoooo. Get a defense pilots chant going. Make some noise. Then all I heard when WE had the ball was DEFENSE...DEFENSE...DEFENSE... do we really need the cheerleaders to get back there to help lead this student section. We were always able to come up with something often times going over the cheerleaders...PATHETIC for a team that was ranked 25th in the country.

Exclamation Agreed 100%. Exclamation



Danger, rant ahead, since I am in this kind of mood. My apologies in advance if I offend anyone, as my intent is to help and improve things, not just complain. I am so irritated by this, however, that I need to get it out. (I will also be pursuing some other channels to try to help out, so I will not just be complaining, but actually trying to do something about it).



The students are the key to electrifying the crowd at the games. The students turned out in numbers last night (overflow to the upper bleachers), but they were dead silent. There is no leadership, no one getting them fired up and organizing/leading cheers/chants, and no emotion displayed. The first couple rows were better than the rest, but even then, they would just try to start the "defense" cheer 15 seconds into a possession. And even then, it was often only the first row. (That chant needs to be started immediately upon the opponent getting the ball, and a few people--a.k.a. the leadership--need to turn around and yell towards the rest of the students to get everyone going and synchronized.)

I never thought I would say what I am about to say in option #1, but.... we really need either (1) the cheerleaders back, (2) a major upgrade/training/attention to the PP leadership, or (3) A re-focus of the dance team. This needs to be done now. Not next year, not later in the season... right now, before the Denver game.

It is not likely that we will get a true cheerleading squad (especially after seeing them last year) anytime soon, so that leaves us #2 and #3.

Option #2: Purple Pride Leadership: Last year we had Clay to lead the students and he did an amazing job; he is sorely missed, and someone needs to be nudged, annointed or take initiative to fill his role. Who are the leaders of Purple Pride this year? Does PP still even exist? Why isnt someone in the administration/athletic department helping the process along? The growth of the student section (and then the crowd overall), needs to be organic, but when that isnt happening, the Athletic Department, PP Leadership, Dance Team leadership... someone.... needs to give a little nudge. This isn't rocket science.

Option #3: Dance Team. The dance team is just not cutting it... while they perform nicely during time-outs, during the game, they just sit there (And really, in their defense, they are a dance team, not cheerleaders. But if we dont have cheerleaders, they need to make some effort to fill that role as well). Even when PSU was shooting freethrows right in front of them in the second half, they just sat there. No noise, no pom pom waiving, nothing. They never joined in on the attempts of the students closest to them to start chants. I also thought maybe having the PSU cheerleaders right next to them might have made them realize what they weren't doing. But it didnt. Really sad.

The rest of the crowd wasnt any better... way too quiet. (I tried to get people fired up qand standing on the old fogey side, with very limited success...)


At minimum, someone in the Purple Pride leadership, Athletic Department or Dance Team needs to get a couple of those students in the front row some training (and this isn't rocket science... 5 minutes would probably do it.... empower someone to lead, and just give them some basic pointers) and some megaphones or something.

The Athletic Department has put soooo much effort into selling tickets & improving the atmosphere at the games, and have done a great job coordinating the time outs, music/band, etc... but the ball is being dropped on the single largest, and quite frankly easiest thing to fix: the students who are there. The marketing folks do a good job of getting them in the door, but then the ball is completely dropped. A rowdy student section, fires up the rest of the crowd, which then creates a community that fans can buy into and makes them want to come back.

I really think, had the crowd been fired up last night, we could have helped fire up the team and shake PSU a bit. Opportunity missed, big time.

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Re: PSU @ #25 Portland, Wednesday 12/2/09, 7pm

Post by PilotDrummer on Thu Dec 03, 2009 11:25 am

Pilot Nut, I'm not gonna disagree with much, but I will say that I don't think the band plays ENOUGH. PSU calls a timeout after we get on a run? Call the fight song and play it right at the visitor bench. Last year an assistant (for SCU, I believe) came over and told Dr. Murphy that we were so loud that they had to abandon their cute little stools for timeouts and go back to the bench. In my mind, the way to get into the visitors' heads is to have noise headed their direction...and the 40 band members last night are a real easy way to do that. I've been trying to get the band to get "into" the game a bit more, even if it's just standing like the student section. Still takes a bit o' work.

I miss the old section for the band in second half. Yelling at free-throw shooters was always fun.

The problem with the cheerleaders that we've had the last few years is that they do their OWN thing. They and the students never coordinated (in my memory) and often they got drowned out by Clay and company. "Shoot two, Pilots, shoot two" doesn't get chanted by a rowdy student section. "De-fense" and "Let's go Pilots," etc. does.

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Re: PSU @ #25 Portland, Wednesday 12/2/09, 7pm

Post by DaTruRochin on Thu Dec 03, 2009 11:33 am

This is the worst news I could have possibly taken away from the game, perhaps even worse than the loss. I mean we play sluggish perimeter defense sure, but you get the crowd into it, the players get that extra rush of adrenaline, that extra push to dig down and fight to pressure that open man. It isn't polo, it isn't golf, it isn't tennis...
IT'S BASKETBALL, only one of the fastest moving, most accessible and exciting sports you can possibly watch!

How can people not stand up and get excited about it? Not to sound like a "back when we were there" person but seriously, we managed to scrap together and get at least a few dozen students getting noisy and our teams were absolutely AWFUL, and our senior year, still a terrible team, we had kids yelling, screaming, chanting for a team that was clearly going nowhere. Now they are winning and it takes the fogey section to initiate chants down the stretch?

Note to students: These are your peers, your classmates representing you and your university. And this is basketball, believe it or not you have the ability to effect the outcome of the game. Why is the Kennel, Cameron Indoor Stadium, The Pit or any other like stadium a tough place to play? It isn't because of the hoops, or the colors of the lines or the floor, it's the atmosphere created by the STUDENT SECTION.

You have one of the best Pilot teams ever assembled right now, they sweat, fight, bleed and work representing you. Act like you give a damn.

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Re: PSU @ #25 Portland, Wednesday 12/2/09, 7pm

Post by PilotDrummer on Thu Dec 03, 2009 11:35 am

DaTruRochin wrote:This is the worst news I could have possibly taken away from the game, perhaps even worse than the loss. I mean we play sluggish perimeter defense sure, but you get the crowd into it, the players get that extra rush of adrenaline, that extra push to dig down and fight to pressure that open man. It isn't polo, it isn't golf, it isn't tennis...
IT'S BASKETBALL, only one of the fastest moving, most accessible and exciting sports you can possibly watch!

How can people not stand up and get excited about it? Not to sound like a "back when we were there" person but seriously, we managed to scrap together and get at least a few dozen students getting noisy and our teams were absolutely AWFUL, and our senior year, still a terrible team, we had kids yelling, screaming, chanting for a team that was clearly going nowhere. Now they are winning and it takes the fogey section to initiate chants down the stretch?

Note to students: These are your peers, your classmates representing you and your university. And this is basketball, believe it or not you have the ability to effect the outcome of the game. Why is the Kennel, Cameron Indoor Stadium, The Pit or any other like stadium a tough place to play? It isn't because of the hoops, or the colors of the lines or the floor, it's the atmosphere created by the STUDENT SECTION.

You have one of the best Pilot teams ever assembled right now, they sweat, fight, bleed and work representing you. Act like you give a damn.
Thank you. You guys had to sit through worse teams than I did when I was a student, I believe.

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Re: PSU @ #25 Portland, Wednesday 12/2/09, 7pm

Post by PilotNut on Thu Dec 03, 2009 11:36 am

I completely agree, Drummer.

I think the band needs to be moved back to the floor bleachers, as then they are blasting right into the visitor bench, and to free up more space in the student section. No offense to the band, but by taking up all the seats in the student section, that required the overflow students to go to the upper bleachers, where they are completely disconnected and "out of it".

And yes, the band needs to play more. The fight song should get the whole arena up on their feet and clapping, instead of sitting and listening to a DJ song.... once they are up and clapping, they will make more noise on the ensuing plays.

And to your point on the lack of cordination between students and dance team: This is exactly what I am referring too. A failure of leadership on both sides. Are you telling me that PP leadership has not met with the cheerleader/dance team leadership?!?!?!?! really?!?!?!?! not to compare notes, coordinate chants, etc?! <insert rocket science comment here>

Again, I apologize if I am offending anyone. I just care wayyyyyy too much about this program to not stand up and try to fix what should really be an easy and cheap thing to fix.

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Re: PSU @ #25 Portland, Wednesday 12/2/09, 7pm

Post by PilotNut on Thu Dec 03, 2009 11:37 am

Well said, DTR.

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Re: PSU @ #25 Portland, Wednesday 12/2/09, 7pm

Post by RiseUP on Thu Dec 03, 2009 11:40 am

I agree with all of this. Move the bad back down so that they are playing just feet away from the game. Let them play more. Bring more students closer. I kept wanting to walk down and yell at the students. There is no one there who is willing to step up and lead them. Utterly painful. Can't someone get a house of 10-15 people, have a couple of beers before the game and come up with some ****. That is all it takes.

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Re: PSU @ #25 Portland, Wednesday 12/2/09, 7pm

Post by pilotram on Thu Dec 03, 2009 11:40 am

Clearly the solution is alcohol sales to anyone of age.

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Re: PSU @ #25 Portland, Wednesday 12/2/09, 7pm

Post by RiseUP on Thu Dec 03, 2009 11:42 am

Well clearly...

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Re: PSU @ #25 Portland, Wednesday 12/2/09, 7pm

Post by PilotDrummer on Thu Dec 03, 2009 11:43 am

coldsmokeCO wrote:Clearly the solution is alcohol sales to anyone of age.
Definitely saw some fans in a section during the Oregon game with a handle of rum. If they want alcohol, they bring it.

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Re: PSU @ #25 Portland, Wednesday 12/2/09, 7pm

Post by ShipstadPilot11 on Thu Dec 03, 2009 11:46 am

As paying fans/interested fans/season ticket holder/etc..., I'd urge all of you to shoot off emails to the appropriate authorities (Tricia Miller?).

Sports Marketing and the Athletic Dept. wants to keep all of you happy and in your seats and paying. Make these suggestions, they clearly make sense...

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Re: PSU @ #25 Portland, Wednesday 12/2/09, 7pm

Post by PilotNut on Thu Dec 03, 2009 11:49 am

While pre-game festivites do a lot to fire up the crowd, this is a failure and/or vacuum of leadership between the various groups. It just mystifies me that no one in the Student Section or Dance Team seems to "get it" or has the initiative to do anything about it.

I would love to have a discussion between some alumni (old timers, recent grads, prior PP leadership, etc), current students, PP leaders, band, athletic department folks and the dance team and firgure this out. This is quite easily rectified, to be honest...

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Re: PSU @ #25 Portland, Wednesday 12/2/09, 7pm

Post by PilotDrummer on Thu Dec 03, 2009 11:52 am

PilotNut wrote:I would love to have a discussion between some alumni (old timers, recent grads, prior PP leadership, etc), current students, PP leaders, band, athletic department folks and the dance team and firgure this out. This is quite easily rectified, to be honest...
Damn, I meet two of those.

I have some thoughts on some of the shortcomings this far from my seat, but don't want to be pointing fingers at individuals in public. Especially since some of them, even if they aren't posters, read the forum.

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Re: PSU @ #25 Portland, Wednesday 12/2/09, 7pm

Post by PilotNut on Thu Dec 03, 2009 11:58 am

I dont mean any of this to be pointing fingers (even though it comes across that way). There have been a ton of changes this year (moving the band, new game management scripts, dance team vs. cheerleaders, clay graduated). There is just a need/role that isnt being met now... and we all want to help fix that. We all care about this program (or else we wouldnt all be posting here) and want to help it grow and succeed...

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Re: PSU @ #25 Portland, Wednesday 12/2/09, 7pm

Post by pilotram on Thu Dec 03, 2009 12:01 pm

That the students are weak fans is probably a function of the usual mediocrity of our teams.....now we're better and no one knows what to do.
That said it seems like when we host GU it always is crazy.

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Re: PSU @ #25 Portland, Wednesday 12/2/09, 7pm

Post by PilotDrummer on Thu Dec 03, 2009 12:02 pm

coldsmokeCO wrote:That the students are weak fans is probably a function of the usual mediocrity of our teams.....now we're better and no one knows what to do.
That said it seems like when we host GU it always is crazy.
It's the one game that's always been a "big deal." But, now that the Pilots are a contender for WCC title, NCAA berth, etc, EVERY GAME IS A BIG DEAL...and I think you're right; no one knows what to do.

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Re: PSU @ #25 Portland, Wednesday 12/2/09, 7pm

Post by DaTruRochin on Thu Dec 03, 2009 12:08 pm

The fact that nobody seems to know what to do really further exacerbates the need to have a meeting of all those in charge to coordinate and execute necessary changes to get everything running before conference play starts. (I realize with the end of the semester it's hard to get people really motivated with all the end of term projects, exams, etc.)

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Re: PSU @ #25 Portland, Wednesday 12/2/09, 7pm

Post by RiseUP on Thu Dec 03, 2009 12:10 pm

DaTruRochin wrote:(I realize with the end of the semester it's hard to get people really motivated with all the end of term projects, exams, etc.)

Which will only make the 1pm game against Denver an even tougher project as that is probably the Saturday before finals? Or at least before dead week.

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Re: PSU @ #25 Portland, Wednesday 12/2/09, 7pm

Post by PilotNut on Thu Dec 03, 2009 12:12 pm

PilotDrummer wrote:It's the one game that's always been a "big deal." But, now that the Pilots are a contender for WCC title, NCAA berth, etc, EVERY GAME IS A BIG DEAL...and I think you're right; no one knows what to do.

Bingo! Every game is a big deal. That game last night could very well have cost us an at-large bid. The crowd, had we all been on it, could have influenced the outcome of the game by either lifting up the Pilots or shaking PSU (and probably both).

"No one knows what to do." This is my point, and where I think we can help. Let's empower the Dance Team, Purple Pride, etc... I think all it takes is a little leadership from 1 person (like Clay last year) to spark the fire.

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Re: PSU @ #25 Portland, Wednesday 12/2/09, 7pm

Post by MesaPilot1 on Thu Dec 03, 2009 12:22 pm

ColdsmokeCO you needed to watch Clay by himself direct the student section for the last two years. The first one was a 9 win and 22 loss season (or something that misserable,I'm sure some one will correct me)

Back to Clay , I find it IMPOSIBLE to believe that there is not one student, or group of students that can get off their hands and lead cheers. I know Basketballhead could do it and maybe next month he will be able to give the current group of students a hand Or tips on BB cheering 101. However , he's a 26yr old man and I know that he's going to just enjoy the game and save his best performance for Vegas and the WCC tourney.In my opinion it's probably time for some student or group of students to grow some and stand up for their school.(oh well that's my trivial My 2 Cents)

I haven't spoke to any of the players yet , but from what it sounds like I don't think they got an ounce of energy from the students. Shame, shame,shame, shame, on you. Like it was mentioned before did anyone who currently attends UP ever,ever, ever go to a Basketball game before. It's really not that hard to get a small group together, a small cheer, a middle-sized cheer, a student body cheer....Ick....Icky...losing the game is bad enough but having to hear about these weannys who cant cheer for their school is revolting.

scratch

-PS-I know PP13 and other students have a heck of a time getting the rest of the students off their hands, but sigh maybe someday they will learn how to "join in". Keep up the good fight you guys there at school now, at least you know PN and the general fans are behind you.


Last edited by MesaPilot1 on Thu Dec 03, 2009 3:02 pm; edited 1 time in total

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Re: PSU @ #25 Portland, Wednesday 12/2/09, 7pm

Post by Stonehouse on Thu Dec 03, 2009 12:22 pm

Good points all around. I agree with just about everything... I've said for a while now that a few good student leaders is all it takes. However, just as a reminder... I thought the students did a great job during the game against Oregon. Lots of energy, everyone standing, chants going pretty regularly... they can do it, and they have done it already this year. But that was a Saturday night and a game against a big school. The bridge we need to cross is getting them fired up for all the games, yes even a Wednesday night game.

But just to offer a different take on this... I think our schedule really hasn't done us much favors.

Obviously, Thursday and Saturday are the best nights... and once WCC play starts and we get into that regular rhythm of game times, that should help.

There's only one more home game until the students leave for break... against Denver, on the Saturday before Finals Week, at 1:00. Very challenging time to expect the students to be rowdy and ready to go. And the Christmas break home games... Idaho the Tuesday night before Christmas, Evergreen State at 3PM on New Year's Eve, and Army at 2PM on the Saturday after New Year's.

I know scheduling was a major, major challenge this year and I'm not blaming anyone... we had to take what we could get. But it is an obstacle.

For me, I am going to reserve judgement on the students until WCC play starts. Really, DTR and Rochin54 and I love to remember our Purple Pride days, but it was still pretty small potatoes until we hit conference play and got into the regular swing of Thursday/Saturday games. In the fall... it's tough because you're up against holidays, dead week, finals, etc. and many of the games are on "off" nights. But once WCC play rolls around, you've got the start of a new semester, generally no tests, games on the best nights... it makes a difference.

Yes, of course I wish our students were all out 100% every game. They should be. And I don't want to seem like I'm making excuses. But honestly, they are turning out in huge numbers and I thought they did great during the one big weekend night game we've had so far. And there are definitely some kids over there that have good leadership potential... not sure where they were last night though. (Class? Studying? Psshhh... there are more important things in life, like your Top 25 basketball team!)

I'd rather have the section full to overflowing and a little quiet than what it used to be... a few of us standing in the front row, with four empty rows behind us and then a smattering of people sitting.

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Re: PSU @ #25 Portland, Wednesday 12/2/09, 7pm

Post by PurplePrideTrumpet on Thu Dec 03, 2009 1:00 pm

The thing is, I don't know what PP's role in games is anymore.

We know what the "classic" PP did, when it was unofficial. Smile And they did a very nice job of firing up the student section and the rest of the arena.

Nowadays PP is an official part of the Athletic Departement. From what I can tell, if you want to be in Purple Pride you sign up, pay some $, and Athletics gives you a Pilots T-shirt and...what else, really? Nobody tells the students they are expected to create the atmosphere at games, so only a few students bother, like DJ Sherman and the others in the first couple rows.

Even then DJ Sherman was trying to start a chant nearly every time down the floor, on offense and defense, and the guys in the front row weren't always picking it up. His attendance record at Pilot games of all kinds has been exemplary in the time he's been here but even he can't do it alone.

I have to agree with Stonehouse, the students did very well in the Oregon game. There was also a good sized student section last night, though. I think the difference is, as Stonehouse says, they didn't realize they needed to be just as involved in this game as in the Oregon game. Last night most of the student section was standing, but I also wonder how many were concentrating on the game as opposed to socializing.

When I was a student I looked at it as my responsibility to bring it. Every game. No matter who was playing. (Now, some of my classmates in the band were a little annoyed at some of what I said, and I suspect I was a big reason behind a certain sentence about good sportsmanship being added to our band contracts, but I digress... Suspect Wink ) Anyway, my attitude was that when I was at a game it was all about the game and supporting the Pilots. I think the key is for the students to realize they are needed at all the games, not just when a big name is in town.

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Re: PSU @ #25 Portland, Wednesday 12/2/09, 7pm

Post by Stonehouse on Thu Dec 03, 2009 2:12 pm

Just FYI... I saw a report that there were over 530 students in attendance last night.

That's roughly 20% of the student body. I'd say that's pretty damn good.

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