Pilots vs. Portland State (Wednesday, Nov. 21 @ 7:00)

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Portland St. @ Pilots - Wednesday @ 7

Post by DoubleDipper on Mon Nov 19, 2012 12:29 pm

As DeanMurdoch already posted in another thread:
Pomeroy projects a 71% probability of a win over PSU on Wednesday. I think anyone that's watched the last two games would say that's extremely generous.

Sagarin ranks PSU at 230 and UP at 294 which is probably more reasonable at this point.
And now even WCC watcher Zach Farmer is saying:
Portland State (1-1) at Portland (1-2), 7 p.m.
Portland has started off the season with a similar problem to last season: shooting the ball. The team is averaging 55 points per game and shooting 39 percent from the field. The only two players with any offensive consistency are Ryan Nicholas and Kevin Bailey. With a stretch of games coming up that includes Washington State, UNLV, and Kentucky, the Pilots have to find that rhythm and find it fast.

Predicted winner: Portland State
PSU has beaten Pacific (of Oregon) and lost a closely fought contest in Eugene agains UO, 80-69.

One can look at the stats to see how poorly UP is fairing in all aspects of the game, but for those of us who've now watched all three games, it's been very disheartening.

I know Rev said something about more "competing consistently" and the "need to battle for 40," but I'm not sure those elements alone will make the Pilots quit turning the ball over and help them make shots. As ShipstadPilot11 wrote yesterday:
We need impact talent STAT

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Pilots vs. Portland State (Wednesday, Nov. 21 @ 7:00)

Post by Guest on Mon Nov 19, 2012 12:32 pm

Okay, I'm gonna take a hack at the game thread to try to turn this around -

Portland vs. Portland State
Wednesday, Nov. 21 - 7:00
Chiles Center

Webcast / Live Stats
Portland Radio - 800 AM
Portland State Radio - 970 AM

Rankings
AP Top 25: rimshot

Sagarin: Portland 297, Portland State 225
Pomeroy: Portland 242, Portland State 261

Portland (1-2) - Season Stats
Nov. 10 - L, 82-51 @ Ohio
Nov. 15 - W, 51-48 vs. Idaho State
Nov. 18 - L, 83-64 @ Montana State

Portland State (1-1) - Season Stats
Nov. 9 - W, 77-58 vs. Pacific (the one in Forest Grove)
Nov. 12 - L, 80-69 @ Oregon


Last edited by DeanMurdoch on Wed Nov 21, 2012 8:53 am; edited 2 times in total

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Re: Pilots vs. Portland State (Wednesday, Nov. 21 @ 7:00)

Post by Guest on Mon Nov 19, 2012 12:33 pm

Portland Info
Preview

Portland State Info
Preview
Game Notes


Last edited by DeanMurdoch on Wed Nov 21, 2012 8:54 am; edited 1 time in total

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Re: Pilots vs. Portland State (Wednesday, Nov. 21 @ 7:00)

Post by PilotNut on Mon Nov 19, 2012 12:38 pm

Thanks, Dean. Well done... much better than what I cut and paste in there!

Let's hope by your starting of the thread that the results are notably improved!

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Re: Pilots vs. Portland State (Wednesday, Nov. 21 @ 7:00)

Post by Geezaldinho on Mon Nov 19, 2012 12:38 pm

I predict Timmy will have no turnovers.

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Re: Pilots vs. Portland State (Wednesday, Nov. 21 @ 7:00)

Post by DoubleDipper on Mon Nov 19, 2012 12:48 pm

I know Dean has already given a link to the PSU website; here's "condensed" version of what's written there:
The last time the programs met - in December of 2010, Portland beat Portland State, 78-67, at the Stott Center. Meanwhile, PSU took the last game at the Chiles Center, an 86-82 upset of the then-25th-ranked Pilots, in December of 2009.

THE SERIES: The series between Portland and Portland State takes on three distinct eras. The Pilots lead the all-time series, 32-17. The Pilots had a 16-1 advantage between 1946-65. The teams did not meet again until 1971, and PSU held a 9-8 advantage from 1971 to 1981 when the Viking program was discontinued. In 1996-97 PSU basketball was reinstated and since that time it has been a close series, with the Pilots leading, 8-7. The Vikings have been 2-5 at the Chiles Center during that span... prior to the Portland win in 2010, the Vikings had won four straight between 2006-09... during this past off-season the schools signed a four-year contract to play at alternating home sites.


NO SURPRISE HERE: Portland State is shooting .505 from the field, .391 from distance and .804 at the line after two games. PSU ranks third in field goal percentage and first in free throw percentage in the Big Sky Conference. That comes as no surprise as the Viking program has traditionally been prolific on offense. PSU, which is averaging 73.0 points, led the Big Sky in scoring each season from 2007-08 to 2010-11. Last year, the Vikings were second in scoring at 76.0 points per game, and led the Big Sky in field goal percentage (.483). The Vikings ranked 13th in the nation in field goal percentage and 26th in scoring last season.

GREAT START FOR DRE: SO G Dre Winston Jr. has gotten his Portland State career off to a great start. Winston Jr. transferred to Portland State from Washington State where he played as a freshman in 2010-11, then sat out last season as a redshirt at PSU... through two games, Winston Jr. is the Vikings' leading scorer at 15.5 points per game, while shooting .786 from the field, .667 from three-point range and .714 at the line.

MOORE, MOORE, MOORE: Another new Viking off to a good start is JR F Aaron Moore. The 6-8 JC transfer has a silky smooth jump shot that has led to 11.0 points per game and a .643 shooting mark. Moore also averages a team-best 5.0 rebounds in 24 minutes per game.

PARKER'S PART: Though he has been touted as one of the Vikings' top returning players, if not the top player, SR F Renado Parker has only now made his first career starts in the opening two games. Parker is second on the team in scoring at 11.5 points and second in rebounding at 4.0 per game. He also has a team-high five steals.

LOCAL ANGLE: For just the third time in history, Portland State will play the other three in-state Division I schools in the same season. The Vikings played at Oregon on Nov. 12, losing 80-69. PSU is at Portland on Nov. 21, then hosts Oregon State on Dec. 12. The other two seasons in which that triple occured were 1996-97 and 2002-03. PSU is 2-10 against Oregon since reinstating basketball in 1996-97, 7-8 against Portland and 0-5 against Oregon State.

BALANCED ATTACK: Portland State does not have a freshman on the roster in 2012-13. But, the Vikings do have a balanced roster with five sophomores, five juniors and five seniors... every player on the Viking roster is 20 or older... there are only six schools in the nation that do not have a freshman on the roster - true or redshirt. They are: Portland State, Ohio, Southern Illinois Edwardsville, Savannah State, Alabama-Birmingham, and Valparaiso

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Re: Pilots vs. Portland State (Wednesday, Nov. 21 @ 7:00)

Post by Guest on Mon Nov 19, 2012 12:53 pm

PilotNut wrote:Thanks, Dean. Well done... much better than what I cut and paste in there!

Multiple people creating game threads at the same time? That's gotta be a good sign. I'm grasping here.

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Re: Pilots vs. Portland State (Wednesday, Nov. 21 @ 7:00)

Post by DoubleDipper on Mon Nov 19, 2012 1:40 pm

DeanMurdoch wrote:Multiple people creating game threads at the same time? That's gotta be a good sign. I'm grasping here.
Yup, but no problem....it IS a GOOD sign!

Too much rain in the Portland area today to do much else.....probably just cold and WINDY in Regina, or at least that's what I used to encounter in Saskatchewan (and Alberta, and......) Razz

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Re: Pilots vs. Portland State (Wednesday, Nov. 21 @ 7:00)

Post by Guest on Mon Nov 19, 2012 2:45 pm

Oh, you've been to this neck of the woods?

I remember when I moved here from Portland, Sollars told me just how **** it was going to be weather-wise. He's got family in Crosby, ND which is two hours south and just across the line.

He was right, of course. Cold and windy normally although today's a beautiful November day. Supposed to get 20cm of the white stuff on Thursday though.

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Re: Pilots vs. Portland State (Wednesday, Nov. 21 @ 7:00)

Post by NoPoNeighbor on Mon Nov 19, 2012 4:28 pm

DoubleDipper wrote:I know Rev said something about more "competing consistently" and the "need to battle for 40," but I'm not sure those elements alone will make the Pilots quit turning the ball over and help them make shots.
This kind of message from the coach (and his constant Twitter mantra of "get better today") makes me wonder if he really grasps the depth of the issues this team is facing. It seems obvious that the problem is not just lack of effort or focus (i.e. "competing consistently").

The Montana State announcer made a really important point during the broadcast on Sunday. He said that Kevin Baily is the only Pilot who has an aggressive offensive instinct. He also said that UP's methodical offensive approach all but eliminates improvisation and spontaneity, which makes it much easier for opponents to pick off passes and force other kinds of turnovers. After three games, our offensive is already entirely predictable. This doesn't seem like a simple issue of lack of effort and focus. And it also goes beyond lack of talent. The offensive system is not working. Will the staff shake things up now, or will we continue with this lethargic offensive play for the rest of the season? I think we have enough evidence already to demonstrate that a 'plan B' is in order.

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Re: Pilots vs. Portland State (Wednesday, Nov. 21 @ 7:00)

Post by DaTruRochin on Mon Nov 19, 2012 6:20 pm

Seems like a lot of the problems you describe would be pretty easily be remedied by a legitimate point guard on the roster... Oskars isn't ready yet, and it seems like none of the converted 2 guards has shown any sort of consistency at creating anything. Something has to give....

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Re: Pilots vs. Portland State (Wednesday, Nov. 21 @ 7:00)

Post by up7587 on Mon Nov 19, 2012 6:43 pm

The methodical offensive approach worked a lot better when there were reliable outside shooters on the team.


Last edited by up7587 on Mon Nov 19, 2012 7:54 pm; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : spelling)

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Re: Pilots vs. Portland State (Wednesday, Nov. 21 @ 7:00)

Post by DaTruRochin on Mon Nov 19, 2012 7:03 pm

up7587 wrote:The methodical offenseive approach worked a lot better when there were reliable outside shooters on the team.

You mean like player who could equal our 3 pt total from the last game in 2 shots?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e8pYZ1MWgY0

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Re: Pilots vs. Portland State (Wednesday, Nov. 21 @ 7:00)

Post by DoubleDipper on Mon Nov 19, 2012 8:03 pm

NoPoNeighbor wrote:The Montana State announcer made a really important point during the broadcast on Sunday. He said that Kevin Baily is the only Pilot who has an aggressive offensive instinct. He also said that UP's methodical offensive approach all but eliminates improvisation and spontaneity, which makes it much easier for opponents to pick off passes and force other kinds of turnovers. After three games, our offensive is already entirely predictable. This doesn't seem like a simple issue of lack of effort and focus. And it also goes beyond lack of talent. The offensive system is not working. Will the staff shake things up now, or will we continue with this lethargic offensive play for the rest of the season? I think we have enough evidence already to demonstrate that a 'plan B' is in order.
One of Rev's assistants publically stated, "You know Coach Reveno's coaching style....it's meat and potatoes, nothing fancy, all very basic."

As up7587 wrote:
The methodical offensive approach worked a lot better when there were reliable outside shooters on the team.
And it's NOT working, so at what some point do we have to turn the athletes loose to be "athletic?" Problem is, who besides Pressley, K. Bailey, Thieleke, and I'll have to add Nicholas and Reinfelds, are really athletic enough to take over "athletically?"

I hate to say it too loud, as most of us are big supporters of our coaching staff, but after one terrible full season and the start of another, it might be time to take a look in the mirror and make some decisions about style of play……just saying.

And, honestly, don't we all hope Coach Reveno succeeds!!!

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Re: Pilots vs. Portland State (Wednesday, Nov. 21 @ 7:00)

Post by DoubleDipper on Mon Nov 19, 2012 8:08 pm

DeanMurdoch wrote:Oh, you've been to this neck of the woods?
Yea……many years ago I was on temporary duty with the Snowbirds for training and practice just a few miles away in Moose Jaw…….three cold weeks during a February that I haven’t forgotten.



Went back during the summer about eight years ago for a reunion of sorts; much nicer!



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Re: Pilots vs. Portland State (Wednesday, Nov. 21 @ 7:00)

Post by NoPoNeighbor on Mon Nov 19, 2012 9:02 pm

That's WHL territory!

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Re: Pilots vs. Portland State (Wednesday, Nov. 21 @ 7:00)

Post by Geezaldinho on Mon Nov 19, 2012 9:08 pm

NoPoNeighbor wrote:That's WHL territory!

No. Haven't you been paying attention? Right now the Winterhawks own the WHL.

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Re: Pilots vs. Portland State (Wednesday, Nov. 21 @ 7:00)

Post by oh brody on Tue Nov 20, 2012 12:07 pm

As up7587 wrote:

The methodical offensive approach worked a lot better when there were reliable outside shooters on the team.
The offense is methodical and stagnant right now, no argument here. That being said, I think there are a number of things the players can do within the current offense to get it flowing and create scoring opportunities. Here are a few things I would like to see:

1) Better ball movement. Quick snappy passes. I can't stand telegraphed lazy passes. Upon receiving the ball, look for a scoring opportunity if an opportunity is not there utilize quick ball movement to get the defense out of position and find an open teammate. Use ball fakes to get the defense moving one direction and then make a quick snappy pass in the opposite.

2) I want to see our post players being aggressive and wanting to score. We are way too passive down low. Flash to the ball, flash to the hoop, do whatever to make yourselves big targets - want the ball and know what you are going to do if you get it.

2b) Perimeter players, get the ball to the post who should be working hard to get open. If his shot is not there keep moving so he can get it back to you for an open jumper. Take the jumper if it’s open! Make yourself a scoring threat; make the defense pay for sagging on the posts. If the jumper is not open make a quick snappy pass until you find someone who is.

3) On in-bounds plays, guards please, please cut towards the ball not away from it

4) On Defense, I would like to see everyone with their arms extended and hands up clogging passing lanes and taking up space. We play far too much defense with our arms near the sides or our bodies. Communication is also important; we don’t do enough talking on the defensive end calling out screens, calling out shots, ball-ball, etc. Be chatty-Kathy out there – I personally believe a defense that is collectively talking as a unit can psych out an offense.

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Re: Pilots vs. Portland State (Wednesday, Nov. 21 @ 7:00)

Post by NoPoNeighbor on Tue Nov 20, 2012 12:29 pm

No argument with any of these suggestions. However, the question remains: Why do any of these points need to be made? Does the team not have FOUR PAID COACHES? There is more than one coach for every four players. Why are these basic things not addressed? Isn't this all very basic stuff? A few more thoughts below...
oh brody wrote:1) Better ball movement. Quick snappy passes. I can't stand telegraphed lazy passes. Upon receiving the ball, look for a scoring opportunity if an opportunity is not there utilize quick ball movement to get the defense out of position and find an open teammate. Use ball fakes to get the defense moving one direction and then make a quick snappy pass in the opposite.
This is a HUGE problem, and exactly what the Montana St. announcer identified after watching the Pilots play for about 15 minutes. This is not new, either. This was the case all last season.

oh brody wrote:2) I want to see our post players being aggressive and wanting to score. We are way too passive down low. Flash to the ball, flash to the hoop, do whatever to make yourselves big targets - want the ball and know what you are going to do if you get it.
Van der Mars is a little better at trying to score. Barker is not. Whenever he gets the ball he immediately brings it down below his waist and hunches down while he thinks about what to do. The post players need to KNOW what they are going to do to immediately go to the hoop upon catching the ball. Agreed that neither center is very aggressive in trying to get open.

oh brody wrote:2b) Perimeter players, get the ball to the post who should be working hard to get open. If his shot is not there keep moving so he can get it back to you for an open jumper. Take the jumper if it’s open! Make yourself a scoring threat; make the defense pay for sagging on the posts. If the jumper is not open make a quick snappy pass until you find someone who is.

3) On in-bounds plays, guards please, please cut towards the ball not away from it
Just incredible that we still have to harp on this.

oh brody wrote:4) On Defense, I would like to see everyone with their arms extended and hands up clogging passing lanes and taking up space. We play far too much defense with our arms near the sides or our bodies. Communication is also important; we don’t do enough talking on the defensive end calling out screens, calling out shots, ball-ball, etc. Be chatty-Kathy out there – I personally believe a defense that is collectively talking as a unit can psych out an offense.

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Re: Pilots vs. Portland State (Wednesday, Nov. 21 @ 7:00)

Post by PilotNut on Tue Nov 20, 2012 1:36 pm

Oh Brody & NoPoNeighbor: Good & valid points. I couldn't agree more on the bigs and the hunching over, pump fakes, etc... why do they always need to bring the ball down? Are they being coached to always pump fake, in hopes of getting fouled... but also letting defense collapse on them?

I can't remember the last time one of our bigs caught the ball up high (or a rebound) and immediately shot or made a lay in. scratch

It is dissappointing that we are in the 7th season of Rev's program, and this is what we are discussing?

The Athletic Dept. has made a big deal about the consistency of the coaching staff over the years; while I agree that it is generally a good thing, some fresh/outside perspective/advice isnt a bad thing now and then, too... I hope they are getting that.

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Re: Pilots vs. Portland State (Wednesday, Nov. 21 @ 7:00)

Post by Geezaldinho on Tue Nov 20, 2012 1:47 pm

PilotNut wrote:
The Athletic Dept. has made a big deal about the consistency of the coaching staff over the years; while I agree that it is generally a good thing, some fresh/outside perspective/advice isnt a bad thing now and then, too... I hope they are getting that.

the coaching staff has not been the same for 7 years. there used to be a skinny bald guy on the staff.

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Re: Pilots vs. Portland State (Wednesday, Nov. 21 @ 7:00)

Post by PilotNut on Tue Nov 20, 2012 1:58 pm

I know that Sobotka left... but when they reshuffled the chairs, the new Assistant (Colin Pfaff) was the previous Director of Operations.... so, not a new face or perspective. While the new Director of Operations (Marshall Cho) is new to the program (and I do hear good things about him), his prior experience is high school coaching.

I am not saying I disagree with any decision, or that I think they need to clean house... I just hope some fresh coaching eyes are looking at the program from time to time, to point out any "blind spots", etc.

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Re: Pilots vs. Portland State (Wednesday, Nov. 21 @ 7:00)

Post by Geezaldinho on Tue Nov 20, 2012 2:19 pm

Yeah, so Joel wasn't a potted palm. Maybe his input is missed.

It's not the same staff.

Just sayin'

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Re: Pilots vs. Portland State (Wednesday, Nov. 21 @ 7:00)

Post by DoubleDipper on Tue Nov 20, 2012 5:34 pm

The odds makers currently have the Pilots by 2 points.....

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Re: Pilots vs. Portland State (Wednesday, Nov. 21 @ 7:00)

Post by Geezaldinho on Tue Nov 20, 2012 5:37 pm

We must be getting better.

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