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Where do we go from here?

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default Re: Where do we go from here?

Post by blacksheep Wed Jan 06, 2021 11:34 am

Dean Murdoch wrote:

This could have been done this past offseason at the same cost. There's no reason to do this now given that the team has basically performed at or mildly above the low expectations that were set for them.

Not really. If TP was let go last season, the school would have had to go out and hire a new head coach. If they let him go mid season, one of the assistants would be promoted to interim head coach at presumably lower salary.

I do agree that there is no real benefit to firing a coach mid season. UP made the decision to go with him for another year and they should stand by that, no matter how painful it might be for the TP haters out there.
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Post by Dean Murdoch Wed Jan 06, 2021 7:18 pm

blacksheep wrote:Not really.  If TP was let go last season, the school would have had to go out and hire a new head coach.  If they let him go mid season, one of the assistants would be promoted to interim head coach at presumably lower salary.  

I do agree that there is no real benefit to firing a coach mid season.  UP made the decision to go with him for another year and they should stand by that, no matter how painful it might be for the TP haters out there.  

Oh, yeah, for sure no new head coach. I meant they could have promoted one of the assistants to interim HC this past offseason. I think that possibility was even floated in this thread after the pandemic hit.
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Post by Geezaldinho Wed Jan 06, 2021 8:16 pm

For the record, UP was VERY close to canning Porter last year.

Then the pandemic hit and the money that was offered up to pay for it went to help the university survive.
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Post by optimist Thu Jan 14, 2021 6:52 pm

1-43 It is time for Terry to go...for everyone's sake.

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Post by Geezaldinho Thu Jan 14, 2021 8:15 pm

optimist wrote:1-43   It is time for Terry to go...for everyone's sake.  



They are 8-63 in his tenure.

It was time last year. Relax. Ride it out. We don’t have to warm seats, at least.

Scott better have a hell of a plan.
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Post by DoubleDipper Thu Jan 14, 2021 9:12 pm

Geezaldinho wrote:Scott better have a hell of a plan.
Well, he might, but I'm told it will not be an expensive plan due to the lack of university of income that is expected to continue into the foreseeable future.

There are a number of very strong, hungry, and talented assistants out there the players will respond to...
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Post by GoPilots19 Fri Jan 15, 2021 10:44 am

DoubleDipper wrote:
Geezaldinho wrote:Scott better have a hell of a plan.
Well, he might, but I'm told it will not be an expensive plan due to the lack of university of income that is expected to continue into the foreseeable future.

There are a number of very strong, hungry, and talented assistants out there the players will respond to...


This ^ Scott may need a plan but what we need more is a ambitious assistant with a step-by-step plan to get us out of the WCC basement.

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Post by dholcombe Fri Jan 15, 2021 11:53 am

DoubleDipper wrote:
Geezaldinho wrote:Scott better have a hell of a plan.
Well, he might, but I'm told it will not be an expensive plan due to the lack of university of income that is expected to continue into the foreseeable future.

There are a number of very strong, hungry, and talented assistants out there the players will respond to...

Not being an expensive plan may be to our benefit. An "expensive plan" by up standards likely would not be enough to hire a top tier D1 coach, but would be enough to hire a coach with middling, but proven performance at the d1 level. I'd like to see us hire a head coach that has had success at a lower level program or at a high school program that did not have success prior to that coach where that success is not attributable to an individual athlete such as a high school getting a once in a generation or less mcdonald's all american player that would have carried any coach to success.

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Post by Geezaldinho Fri Jan 15, 2021 2:11 pm

For god sakes make sure there is a decent buyout clause.
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Post by Dean Murdoch Sun Jan 17, 2021 10:01 am

https://pepperdinewaves.com/news/2018/2/13/Men_s_Basketball_Coaching_Change_Announced_for_Next_Season

A reminder of what Pepperdine did a few seasons ago. If the rest of this season goes along the same script as every other year under Coach Porter, you have to wonder if the Pilots will do the same thing this year and announce early in order to get a leg up on the search.
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Post by Geezaldinho Sun Jan 17, 2021 5:01 pm

Jeez. How much searching needs to be done? You’d think with a couple years to plan it would just be checking down a list of prospects.
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Post by DoubleDipper Mon Jan 18, 2021 1:35 pm

DoubleDipper wrote:There are a number of very strong, hungry, and talented assistants out there the players will respond to...
In addition to a number of assistants interested in the UP job, I'm learning there are at least a few successful mid-major D1 head coaches who are also interested and would likely demand much less money than TP is being paid.

Without naming anyone specifically, there are head coaches who would consider the UP position a step-up because they would be moving up to the WCC and the opportunity to show they can win in a strong conference.

The WCC recently dropped to the #9 position among all conferences according to KenPom, but the conference is still ahead of 23 conferences, but behind the Power-6 and the American and Atlantic 10.  There may not be a big scramble to leave the #10 Mountain West, but the #15 Ivy (a conference that is taking this season off), the #17 Big West, and the #27 WAC, all have experienced and successful coaches looking to move up.

One assistant coach with a lengthy record of success who was one of my top two choices 5 years ago, Jim Shaw, is now the associate head coach at WSU.  I'm guessing Jim was interviewed for the job before UP instead decided to go with a coach who brought Blazer glamor, and I don't know if he's still interested, but he would certainly raise the level of recruiting and coaching at UP.

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Post by Dean Murdoch Mon Jan 18, 2021 1:53 pm

DoubleDipper wrote:In addition to a number of assistants interested in the UP job, I'm learning there are at least a few successful mid-major D1 head coaches who are also interested and would likely demand much less money than TP is being paid.

Without naming anyone specifically, there are head coaches who would consider the UP position a step-up because they would be moving up to the WCC and the opportunity to show they can win in a strong conference.

To me this is both surprising and encouraging.

I had planned to respond to Geez suggesting we call it more of a "recruitment effort" than a "search" given the magnitude of the turnaround that needs to happen in this program. If the goal is to hang a banner at the end of the year, then UP is without a doubt the toughest job in the entire country right now.

Let's hope you're right, DD. It's been a looooooooooooooong half decade.
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Post by optimist Mon Jan 25, 2021 3:42 pm

reposting in this string because, this is where it belongs and after today's game, it is even more true...so sad:

Dear Scott
Please let him go. Today's L was a coaching loss on so many levels. And it's only going to get worse. I can't think of a reason to keep him on staff any longer...not one. And there's no downside to letting him go. It is well past time to get back on track. Ten games left. You owe it to the kids, you owe it to the staff/administration, you owe it to the fans, and frankly, you owe it to yourself. The Pilot Men's Basketball program needs you, Scott. Make the change. Start the search today...it's time for a new direction. What are you waiting for?

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Post by bullwinkle Mon Jan 25, 2021 6:56 pm

I posted my displeasure with Terry a number of times over the last few years and wrote one or two personal emails to Scott imploring him to move past Porter - obviously to no avail.  I finally rationalized that maybe when Terry was hired, Scott was feeling so (grateful, honored, desperate) to have him, he promised, no matter what, he would not fire Terry.  It was a successful way of turning my disgust over Terry's performance into some sort of honorable gesture for Leykam.   We still dropped out of the Pilot Club and didn't renew our tickets starting two years ago.  We turned our attention to the women's team and weren't disappointed.

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Post by DoubleDipper Mon Jan 25, 2021 8:39 pm

bullwinkle wrote:  I finally rationalized that maybe when Terry was hired, Scott was feeling so (grateful, honored, desperate) to have him, he promised, no matter what, he would not fire Terry.
Haha, a nice rationalization, but not reality, I'm afraid.

Many have come to learn that Scott attempted to fire TP after last season, but the UP Regents were not willing to shell out the $500,000 remaining on his contract AND pay a new head coach at the same time.  

(As discussed earlier in this forum, not buying-out TP turned out to be a financially fortunate decision when the pandemic severely cut UP's revenue).

Also mentioned in this forum was Scott's attempt to get TP to "retire" without a buyout at the end of last season, which seemed reasonable in that his sons were no longer on the team...but he obviously did not accept that face-saving offer.

TP's contract will not be renewed at the end of this season and he will "retire" and return to his life as a Blazer Alum.  No doubt his five years at UP will be forgotten by most Portlanders, but not by Pilots fans who will never forget how he left the MBB program in much worse shape than it was when he arrived on the Bluff.
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Post by Dean Murdoch Wed Jan 27, 2021 7:12 am

optimist wrote:reposting in this string because, this is where it belongs and after today's game, it is even more true...so sad:

Don't look now, but...

https://nypost.com/2021/01/26/fordham-fires-mens-college-hoop-coach-jeff-neubauer/

You can draw a lot of parallels between Fordham and Portland, right down to COVID providing an extra year for the coach when a change would have been made in any other season.

Now the Fordham coach has allegedly had some embarrassing personal behavior issues that likely played into the decision as well. Certainly doesn't appear to be the same issue with Coach Porter, thankfully.
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Post by DoubleDipper Wed Jan 27, 2021 11:54 am

Dean Murdoch wrote:You can draw a lot of parallels between Fordham and Portland, right down to COVID providing an extra year for the coach when a change would have been made in any other season.
One parallel between Porter and the Fordham coach are their conference records.

Neubauer would not be in the UP HOF with his 17-63 A-10 record over the past 5 seasons, but TP has won 10 less at 7-68 in the WCC.  Both coaches obviously need(ed) to go.

As much as we'd like to see TP step down now, I still contend that unless there is a change of heart on the part of UP, TP will simply "retire" at the end of the season because the UP Administration doesn't want to contend with the bad PR of firing a Portland basketball icon...although at this point, I doubt anyone would even notice.

Another more striking parallel is both Fordham and UP are both perennial losers.  Is there ANYONE who can bring the two programs of these Catholic** universities out of the morass...regardless of the reputations of the replacement coaches or how much they are paid?  It didn't work at Fordham last time around.

** It always fun to get into light-hearted discussions with the Christian Brothers at SMC or the Holy Cross priests and brothers at UP about Catholic vs. Jesuit (Fordham is Jesuit), but that is probably a discussion for another time.
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Post by optimist Thu Jan 28, 2021 12:23 am

DoubleDipper wrote:...although at this point, I doubt anyone would even notice.


The only people who would notice...and care...would be the players.  To everyone else in Pilot nation, this would be a much expected momentary blip (heck, TP would probably be happy).  I think the administration is overestimating the pr impact that letting go of TP would have on UP.  

Everyone knows that this was a bad hire...w/no buyout clause to boot?  isn't Cantu still on the payroll?  I'm starting to wonder if it's time to make a head coach change AND an AD change.  How can Scott let this go on even one more day.  This program has been driven into the ground...and the kids see an administration that doesn't appear to care.  I am guessing the good ones will jump ship next year regardless of who they bring in as coach.  Such a shame as i think we have all seen potential in them (hats off to the assistants who were able to bring in solid talent despite the head coaching situation).  

7-68...we are getting close to the basketball "mendoza line"...batting .102.  Nine games left to go sub .100.  Is this the worst five or more year conference coaching performance in the history of the WCC?  D1?  This is on you, Scott...you hired him.  As the leader of the athletic department, it's on you to fix it.  Each conf win has cost about $350K based on TP's reported salary.  Waiting and watching the team lose nine more games is not the right answer.  

Sad, indeed...mostly that no one seems to care, except for perhaps us.  The kids deserve better.
Sad, sad, indeed.

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Post by DoubleDipper Thu Jan 28, 2021 9:57 am

optimist wrote: I'm starting to wonder if it's time to make a head coach change AND an AD change.  How can Scott let this go on even one more day.
I am not writing to defend the indefensible, but to remind all that Scott did attempt to fire Porter at least twice but was overridden by the folks in Waldschmidt Hall.

However, that doesn't mean he shouldn't try again...
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Post by Geezaldinho Thu Jan 28, 2021 11:15 am

Optimist wrote: Such a shame as i think we have all seen potential in them (hats off to the assistants who were able to bring in solid talent despite the head coaching situation).

It should be noted that in some interviews with players, they mentioned the attraction was coming to learn from Terry, so while the assistants may have worked hard, their drawing card was the HC.
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Post by DoubleDipper Thu Jan 28, 2021 11:50 am

Geezaldinho wrote:It should be noted that in some interviews with players, they mentioned the attraction was coming to learn from Terry, so while the assistants may have worked hard, their drawing card was the HC.
I've heard some chatter that the longer TP is head coach, the longer some of the players will wait to enter the transfer portal.

Then, if a new head coach can be hired relatively quickly, it will give him the chance to re-recruit a few of the current players before they commit elsewhere...just as Stan Johnson did at LMU.
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Post by DoubleDipper Sun Jan 31, 2021 2:57 pm

After their weekend games against SMC and SCU were postponed, and the Pilots took the weekend off, I can report that Terry and his Pilots just completed their first undefeated WCC weekend in three years.

In Porter’s first season, 2016-17, the Pilots had a great start to the WCC season by defeating UOP on the road and PU at home, but those two wins turned out to be the team’s only WCC wins of the season.

In 2018 the Pilots had two undefeated weekends at home, beating USD and LMU and then PU and LMU two weeks later for their only 4 WCC wins of the season.  (After beating LMU twice in the regular season, UP then lost to the Lions in the first-round in Las Vegas.)

There are still a few opportunities for the Pilots to have another undefeated weekend before Coach Porter “retires,” but the chances are dwindling.
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Post by Dean Murdoch Thu Feb 04, 2021 8:04 am

https://www.silverwavesmedia.com/news_article/show/1143633

Anyone on this list of interest? I even spot one with deep connections to Portland that is now an assistant coach at a high major!
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Post by DoubleDipper Thu Feb 04, 2021 10:34 am

Dean Murdoch wrote:https://www.silverwavesmedia.com/news_article/show/1143633

Anyone on this list of interest? I even spot one with deep connections to Portland that is now an assistant coach at a high major!
Scott was given the list...

UPDATE:  Scott is in possession of the list!  pirat
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