2022 - 2023 Schedule/Season

up7587 wrote:

DoubleDipper wrote:As we watched the Pilots fall apart in the second half, I was impressed by the leadership and "take charge" attitude of the WSU floor leaders while the UP squad looked bewildered and were constantly looking to the sidelines for instructions.

Damned if you do, damned if you don't.  

DoubleDipper wrote:Simply put, McKelle outplayed the (voted for) WCC Player of the Year in the Tournament Championship game.

GU's #14 turned the ball over 7 times because of UP's team defense, but it was McKelle who was in her grill the entire game, and when on offense McKelle missed only one shot and and every point she scored was a momentum changer during the second half.

up7587 wrote:...I learned from the GU fan board that the Zags lost yesterday because Lisa Fortier stood on the sideline with her arms folded and did nothing to help her team as they imploded.  They (well, at least one of them) thought Coach Meek helped his team from the sidelines, and outcoached Fortier with his halftime adjustments.

wrv wrote:

Adam wrote:

up7587 wrote:

DoubleDipper wrote:As we watched the Pilots fall apart in the second half, I was impressed by the leadership and "take charge" attitude of the WSU floor leaders while the UP squad looked bewildered and were constantly looking to the sidelines for instructions.

All coaches give instructions and often call out plays, but Meek does it to the extreme, IMO.  

Practice, practice, practice, and turn the players loose with some guidance and then turn the team loose on the court letting the floor leaders/captains run the show would better serve the team, again, IMO.   

While looking for something else early in the thread, I found this post after the Dec. 7th game.  It made me smile because I learned from the GU fan board that the Zags lost yesterday because Lisa Fortier stood on the sideline with her arms folded and did nothing to help her team as they imploded.  They (well, at least one of them) thought Coach Meek helped his team from the sidelines, and outcoached Fortier with his halftime adjustments.

Damned if you do, damned if you don't.  

The ideal is somewhere in between I think. Intervene to make adjustments is definitely great coaching. Calling out every play even when things are going fine, is where the earlier comments were focused I think. Great coach we have none the less, but its just an area that can definitely help develop players even more than all the ither good stuff does

With due  respect, we are into some subjective mumbo jumbo here. While it may be that Coach Meeks occassionally over does it, the objective evidence speaks for itself:  Coach Meek has won the league championship twice in three years, and no other Pilot basketball coach has, none, and to date during his four years no scholarship player has entered the freely open transfer portal. This objective evidence is arrayed against internet opinions offered by fans of the team, albeit observant and informed fans.

My guess is the Zag fans would take coach Meek over their coach in a heart beat. I went to the  Zag board, where the following criticism of their women's bball coach was offered, whom they refer to as CLF:

"After watching CLF standing with her arms crossed watching her team struggle against the press, what a difference watching Mark Few coach the men. Every time up or down the court, Few and his staff are calling out plays, pointing out where they want the players to be, the play to run, etc. There are very few plays that Coach Few is not actively involved in directing the play. Maybe CLF should take some lessons from the coach down the hall if she wants to improve her tournament record; both the WCC and the NCAA." Posted 3/7/23 by ZagDaD.

Sounds as if Few resembles Meek style wise.

While I won't over-simplify this by suggesting "all's well that ends well," I will suggest there is stronger evidence that Meek has gotten it [mostly] right and that he should be lauded. Coach Meek is a good coach, a really good one as far as I can tell, but not above criticism.

BTW, one sage earlier posted on this board that we do not have a D1 point guard: I think that McKelle's performance during the tournament suggests otherwise. She is not at the skill level of Haylee Andrews, but we are a mid-major program. Points as good as  Haylee do not grow on trees. But McKelle has established herself at the D1 level, even if more limited. Congrats on the good tournament Mckelle.

This same sage suggested strongly that Lliana is a liability--I continue to disagree.

up7587 wrote:

DoubleDipper wrote:After all, she guided her team that was expected to be 1st in the conference to the expected result.

Well, she did have to deal with injuries to important players.  I doubt any other coaches had to do that.

Adam wrote:

wrv wrote:

Adam wrote:

up7587 wrote:

DoubleDipper wrote:As we watched the Pilots fall apart in the second half, I was impressed by the leadership and "take charge" attitude of the WSU floor leaders while the UP squad looked bewildered and were constantly looking to the sidelines for instructions.

All coaches give instructions and often call out plays, but Meek does it to the extreme, IMO.  

Practice, practice, practice, and turn the players loose with some guidance and then turn the team loose on the court letting the floor leaders/captains run the show would better serve the team, again, IMO.   

While looking for something else early in the thread, I found this post after the Dec. 7th game.  It made me smile because I learned from the GU fan board that the Zags lost yesterday because Lisa Fortier stood on the sideline with her arms folded and did nothing to help her team as they imploded.  They (well, at least one of them) thought Coach Meek helped his team from the sidelines, and outcoached Fortier with his halftime adjustments.

Damned if you do, damned if you don't.  

The ideal is somewhere in between I think. Intervene to make adjustments is definitely great coaching. Calling out every play even when things are going fine, is where the earlier comments were focused I think. Great coach we have none the less, but its just an area that can definitely help develop players even more than all the ither good stuff does

With due  respect, we are into some subjective mumbo jumbo here. While it may be that Coach Meeks occassionally over does it, the objective evidence speaks for itself:  Coach Meek has won the league championship twice in three years, and no other Pilot basketball coach has, none, and to date during his four years no scholarship player has entered the freely open transfer portal. This objective evidence is arrayed against internet opinions offered by fans of the team, albeit observant and informed fans.

My guess is the Zag fans would take coach Meek over their coach in a heart beat. I went to the  Zag board, where the following criticism of their women's bball coach was offered, whom they refer to as CLF:

"After watching CLF standing with her arms crossed watching her team struggle against the press, what a difference watching Mark Few coach the men. Every time up or down the court, Few and his staff are calling out plays, pointing out where they want the players to be, the play to run, etc. There are very few plays that Coach Few is not actively involved in directing the play. Maybe CLF should take some lessons from the coach down the hall if she wants to improve her tournament record; both the WCC and the NCAA." Posted 3/7/23 by ZagDaD.

Sounds as if Few resembles Meek style wise.

While I won't over-simplify this by suggesting "all's well that ends well," I will suggest there is stronger evidence that Meek has gotten it [mostly] right and that he should be lauded. Coach Meek is a good coach, a really good one as far as I can tell, but not above criticism.

BTW, one sage earlier posted on this board that we do not have a D1 point guard: I think that McKelle's performance during the tournament suggests otherwise. She is not at the skill level of Haylee Andrews, but we are a mid-major program. Points as good as  Haylee do not grow on trees. But McKelle has established herself at the D1 level, even if more limited. Congrats on the good tournament Mckelle.

This same sage suggested strongly that Lliana is a liability--I continue to disagree.

Internet forums are nothing but places to offer opionions, so by design are 'subjective mumbo jumbo', and that post is no different, with all due respect.

Meek is a straight up excellent coach, no doubt. Brilliant tactician, pushes performance, etc. Should have been WCC coach of the year. 2 champs in 4 years is of course objective evidence of that. Regarding the other comment offered as an objective fact, I dont pretend to know scholarship status, so just checking that Tyler, Megan, Shasta, Josie, Jacksen and Jayce who all entered the transfer portal and found new schools, were all walkons?

Acknowledging we have a standout successful coach, doesnt mean the few people that commented that they think being over-involved in play direction, concern for the tone towards players coming off court, players hesitantly looking to Meek for play calls, are opinions that should be criticised as mumbo jumbo. Comparing coaching styles as being similar based off one post on gonzaga forums though may well be.

Just have to watch any Gonzaga mens game to see Few and Meek have completely different styles. Few displays exactly the subtlety the previous posters are suggesting could be an area for improvement. Few is measured, often with long periods of silence taking a knee. He trusts the point guards and leaders come down and call plays confidently after making reads on the D setup, even in pressure situations, and the players motion to reposition each other. Few then intervenes when he sees errors or breakdowns where he can see something he can offer to help his on court leaders, or only occasionaly redirects the plays where he sees a better play option or wants to change things up tactically. Its the subtley of intervening necessarily which Meek is great at, and the next advance in player development of them learning how to make their own reads confidently that can even further advance team success, as well as develop them ready for needing to do that at the semi pro or pro level. Since those comments, the players have certainly matured in leading things, but Im not sure theres been a commensurate balance of sideline direction. A bit better no doubt, so good signs, and also a good suggestion that the early comments werent mumbo jumbo, if the improvement since is coming along.

We should be ok on an opinion forum with both lauding an excellent coaches merits and achievements, but also discuss observations that could further advantage success, not only measured in wins and champs, but player developmment, welfare, and even further success potential on court. There are countless highly successful coaches who's reputations have lost their shine after investigations or departures show how success was achieved at the expense of player welfare. Not suggesting thats the case here at all, but in a modern context where UP just went through a major campaign about concerning stats for student mental health, we shouldnt be in a space where observers commenting on seeing McKelle or other players in tears after being berrated, or how other teams leaders seem confident and trusted to call plays, arent able to suggest their concern for fear of criticism as mumbo jumbo. Its just to suggest, your objective facts of champ wins are great, but arent the only defining yard stick these days.

If mumbo jumbo is a few people offering measured observations, then I say keep mumboing the jumbo!

wrv wrote:

Adam wrote:

wrv wrote:

Adam wrote:

up7587 wrote:

DoubleDipper wrote:As we watched the Pilots fall apart in the second half, I was impressed by the leadership and "take charge" attitude of the WSU floor leaders while the UP squad looked bewildered and were constantly looking to the sidelines for instructions.

All coaches give instructions and often call out plays, but Meek does it to the extreme, IMO.  

Practice, practice, practice, and turn the players loose with some guidance and then turn the team loose on the court letting the floor leaders/captains run the show would better serve the team, again, IMO.   

While looking for something else early in the thread, I found this post after the Dec. 7th game.  It made me smile because I learned from the GU fan board that the Zags lost yesterday because Lisa Fortier stood on the sideline with her arms folded and did nothing to help her team as they imploded.  They (well, at least one of them) thought Coach Meek helped his team from the sidelines, and outcoached Fortier with his halftime adjustments.

Damned if you do, damned if you don't.  

The ideal is somewhere in between I think. Intervene to make adjustments is definitely great coaching. Calling out every play even when things are going fine, is where the earlier comments were focused I think. Great coach we have none the less, but its just an area that can definitely help develop players even more than all the ither good stuff does

With due  respect, we are into some subjective mumbo jumbo here. While it may be that Coach Meeks occassionally over does it, the objective evidence speaks for itself:  Coach Meek has won the league championship twice in three years, and no other Pilot basketball coach has, none, and to date during his four years no scholarship player has entered the freely open transfer portal. This objective evidence is arrayed against internet opinions offered by fans of the team, albeit observant and informed fans.

My guess is the Zag fans would take coach Meek over their coach in a heart beat. I went to the  Zag board, where the following criticism of their women's bball coach was offered, whom they refer to as CLF:

"After watching CLF standing with her arms crossed watching her team struggle against the press, what a difference watching Mark Few coach the men. Every time up or down the court, Few and his staff are calling out plays, pointing out where they want the players to be, the play to run, etc. There are very few plays that Coach Few is not actively involved in directing the play. Maybe CLF should take some lessons from the coach down the hall if she wants to improve her tournament record; both the WCC and the NCAA." Posted 3/7/23 by ZagDaD.

Sounds as if Few resembles Meek style wise.

While I won't over-simplify this by suggesting "all's well that ends well," I will suggest there is stronger evidence that Meek has gotten it [mostly] right and that he should be lauded. Coach Meek is a good coach, a really good one as far as I can tell, but not above criticism.

BTW, one sage earlier posted on this board that we do not have a D1 point guard: I think that McKelle's performance during the tournament suggests otherwise. She is not at the skill level of Haylee Andrews, but we are a mid-major program. Points as good as  Haylee do not grow on trees. But McKelle has established herself at the D1 level, even if more limited. Congrats on the good tournament Mckelle.

This same sage suggested strongly that Lliana is a liability--I continue to disagree.

Internet forums are nothing but places to offer opionions, so by design are 'subjective mumbo jumbo', and that post is no different, with all due respect.

Meek is a straight up excellent coach, no doubt. Brilliant tactician, pushes performance, etc. Should have been WCC coach of the year. 2 champs in 4 years is of course objective evidence of that. Regarding the other comment offered as an objective fact, I dont pretend to know scholarship status, so just checking that Tyler, Megan, Shasta, Josie, Jacksen and Jayce who all entered the transfer portal and found new schools, were all walkons?

Acknowledging we have a standout successful coach, doesnt mean the few people that commented that they think being over-involved in play direction, concern for the tone towards players coming off court, players hesitantly looking to Meek for play calls, are opinions that should be criticised as mumbo jumbo. Comparing coaching styles as being similar based off one post on gonzaga forums though may well be.

Just have to watch any Gonzaga mens game to see Few and Meek have completely different styles. Few displays exactly the subtlety the previous posters are suggesting could be an area for improvement. Few is measured, often with long periods of silence taking a knee. He trusts the point guards and leaders come down and call plays confidently after making reads on the D setup, even in pressure situations, and the players motion to reposition each other. Few then intervenes when he sees errors or breakdowns where he can see something he can offer to help his on court leaders, or only occasionaly redirects the plays where he sees a better play option or wants to change things up tactically. Its the subtley of intervening necessarily which Meek is great at, and the next advance in player development of them learning how to make their own reads confidently that can even further advance team success, as well as develop them ready for needing to do that at the semi pro or pro level. Since those comments, the players have certainly matured in leading things, but Im not sure theres been a commensurate balance of sideline direction. A bit better no doubt, so good signs, and also a good suggestion that the early comments werent mumbo jumbo, if the improvement since is coming along.

We should be ok on an opinion forum with both lauding an excellent coaches merits and achievements, but also discuss observations that could further advantage success, not only measured in wins and champs, but player developmment, welfare, and even further success potential on court. There are countless highly successful coaches who's reputations have lost their shine after investigations or departures show how success was achieved at the expense of player welfare. Not suggesting thats the case here at all, but in a modern context where UP just went through a major campaign about concerning stats for student mental health, we shouldnt be in a space where observers commenting on seeing McKelle or other players in tears after being berrated, or how other teams leaders seem confident and trusted to call plays, arent able to suggest their concern for fear of criticism as mumbo jumbo. Its just to suggest, your objective facts of champ wins are great, but arent the only defining yard stick these days.

If mumbo jumbo is a few people offering measured observations, then I say keep mumboing the jumbo!

The mumbo jumbo reference was to your reference thaat  an "ideal" coach should be somewhere in between calling the plays and not at all. You need a ouija board to pinpoint what exactly a coach should do, according to you, let alone that you audaciously suggest Meek might employ different tactics than he does.This is mumbo jumbo: I prefer the coaches qualifications, analysis and approach.

You suggest the coach should do things differently tactically, that the  coach should not call out the plays to the degree he does, and then you suggest Meek is a "brillant tactician." No time like the present to make inconsistent arguments.

The poster at the Zag board was knowledgeable and objective and without an axe to grind as you. His representations re Mark Few are accurate. I have seen Gonzaga games thank you. The post description is an accurate one of Few and both Meek and Few call out plays as was suggested, which is what was  suggested occurred.

Mumbo jumbo on but it does not mean measured comments--how about consistency and clarity for a change.

wrv wrote:I  stand by my comments. Given the  uncivil tenor of your diatribe, it is clear that you're the one with  the beef. Your allusion to help is laughable in context, a truly odd comment as is your allusion to "precious."

Adam wrote:

wrv wrote:I  stand by my comments. Given the  uncivil tenor of your diatribe, it is clear that you're the one with  the beef. Your allusion to help is laughable in context, a truly odd comment as is your allusion to "precious."

Ive found all the posts on here in my time to generally be people expressing diverse opinion without narkiness. It was your post that initiated incivility, calling past posters sarcastically 'sages' and criticising people for talking mumbo jumbo. People post opinions about topics, you posted opinions about posters. Dont try and turn on its head someone responding to your initial jibes at multiple posters.

Speaking of preciousness, it may come as a total shock, but coaches arent generally precious types and in need of your blind defence. We have multiple good forums worldwide dedicated to being open about our development journeys, learning from each other. As mentioned before, Few and Meek and great proponents of this peer development, participating and providing seminars. Some of most discussed topics in the modern context is the evolutionary swing from balancing winning, with player development, and now increasingly much more expactation in recent years about player walfare. Most people share and learn willingly in trying to develop their coaching, even those already at the highest levels.

It was only a fortnight ago my club here worksopped with junior coaches some aspects of Mike's press. Our club has for many years run very similar presses, but we particulalry wanted to learn from the transition back into a matchup zone, where its more agressive than our and we play more man to man as well. They watched some of Mikes hour long video session on his press, and then drilled down into the types of players needed to fill the roles in the press and how to develop their skills if there werent natural fits for the chaser and interceptor roles.

Sounds like anything other than rose coloured glasses faces personal sarcasm here, so I will note that and keep any thoughts to coaching forums. Maybe the other original posters raising their opinions will shy away too. Have fun in your echo chamber.

In this must-watch interview, get an exclusive behind-the-scenes look at the 3 Kiwi girls of the newly crowned WCC champion Portland Pilots!

Hear from these talented athletes as they share their experience joining the team and their journey to becoming NCAA Division 1 conference champions. Learn more about their backgrounds and what it means to represent their home country in the USA. This is an interview you won't want to miss, so tune in now to hear from these rising stars!

up7587 wrote:How tall is Flo?  The roster says 6'0", but in the team photo she looks taller.