USD @ UP, Thursday 8pm

Congrats student body (take a bow). Your not only letting down the head coach, but wondering why we cant pick up a top recruit???

Because you can't support your school as well as the local high schools support their Basketball Players.UP ought to have a social orientation class for the current socially inept student body at UP. I guess they were all at home playing on their Xboxs or with their barbies and Ken dolls...

Oh, I'd make a vague gesture towards the ball...

DaTruRochin wrote:
Well first off that showing on national tv is bad, but in front of 2 recruits... BAH...

The good news is that official visits are only 48 hours long and this is a school night. They are probably coming for the weekend and will take in the Saint Mary's game.

Saturday crowds are better (I hope).

If recruits were here, the UP students didn't show them much. I was shocking enough that I actually counted bodies in the first ten rows at the start of the game.


- 22

Agreed on the weakness of the students from a cheering standpoint, but not in terms of numbers... there were over 350 students there tonight. (Really!)

They are coming to the games in droves, and have been all year. The problem is getting them to make noise.

What really baffles me is how some of the leaders of the student section can show up to some games and be totally rowdy and really getting after it, to not even bothering to show up (or sitting in the higher reaches of the bleachers) for other games. They are just so desperate for leadership... get 10-15 solid guys together and I bet the whole student section is standing. It's frustrating.

Stonehouse wrote: They are just so desperate for leadership... get 10-15 solid guys together and I bet the whole student section is standing. It's frustrating.

Wait... They can do that!?!

Before this turns into another PSU thread, I have to step in and try to provide some perspective at least from the opposing side.


This might not be the most coherent response and I might not have the most consistent points, some might get repeated, but the following is a reaction and response to the previous comments made on this and other threads.

Being one of the 8, understand some of the events that transpired did not show up on camera, for good reason. The front row condensed to 5 and as few as 3 after Bill Irwin, Larry Williams, the Athletic director, and even one of the refs threatened to throw the section out after some relentless attacks on Matt Dorr that involved a large amount of vulgarity, prompting people to move back to avoid the ire and ejection. People tend to be more cautious after several scoldings and when they think their 'freedoms' are being restricted, not my personal perspective, but exhibited by at least one of the guys in the front row Thursday night.

To respond to UP7587's comment, I believe most of the crowd had left by the time he made his comment as some people are less likely to to stay the entire time. The start time might have thrown off some of the students, even though they continued their routine of arriving fashionably late and leaving early.

I will admit to not being loud the entire time, but when the guys are up by as much as 19 and the game is not the most appealing, it's hard to give it your all and not come off as classless. Once again, some of us, myself included, at times, are not prone to constantly cheering or even when we are, we are not prone to spread it back, opting to offer encouragement or discouragement depending on the situation. However, you know it's bad when they decide not to even try to use the "LOUDER" sign.

I'd like to provide school as an excuse as we are around the time of the first exams and papers being due this semester (and a reason some of the people don't show up because a few of the people are students first), but I have to admit many of the students who attend are front runners who show up for bigger games or nationally televised games against big schools on what they (the students) consider to be big networks, part of the reason for the lackluster energy. At least one of the guys there tonight admitted he showed up early, thinking the game started at 7.

The numbers should be there on Saturday maybe not on time due to the 6 pm start, hopefully they can be better (read: cleaner, to a point, but still passionate) than tonight and as long as the appearances of the lightish brown wheat flavored drinks are held to a minimum on the student side during the game, the section might be a better representative of the Bluff. I also must admit I apologized to the ESPNU guys, the radio voices for both sides and the Taishi Ito Fan Club for the conduct shown this evening. I do have to give the Taishi Ito Fan Club, which included one of Taishi's coaches from the Seattle area, credit for bringing excitement, passion and creative sign-making to parts of the game while not resorting to expletives, at least not in English.

Thursday games are also less attended by Saturday because Pilot Riot, the more homegrown version of Purple Pride and the closest thing the majority of the students not there tonight has to the 'social orientation' class Mesa mentioned, has more trouble 'preparing for class meetings' during the week than on weekends, but I'm not registered in that class, so don't take my word for it...

Please take it easy, the times, they change, but not always for the better. Trish, Stonehouse, and Co. have heard your suggestions and implemented some of them, but maybe some of the students are not willing or able to take a chance on building a section from a difficult few years of struggle or enjoy some of the changes. Honestly, remixed version of cheers played over the loud speaker will not encourage me to repeat them, I might if the Victory march lyrics are included. Honestly, the music and lyrics are around 25 years old and few to anyone, including some of the players on the court tonight, know them.

Having been at the different sports over my time here thus far, I can say a good portion of the students are not the type to actively cheer or even stand up because they might not be used to being an active participant or even starting their own clean cheer organically. Some of them attend to take a break from studies and commiserate with their friends, caring not about the events on the playing surface. Others are passionate but are not the type to yell during games.

Hold out hope that Saturday will be better, and remember that tomorrow and Saturday are new days. (What better way to end a Mesa-like post than with a few emoticons?)

Thanks for the post, DJ...

I had seen the signs for Pilot Riot and wondered what that was.... sounds like a class I would have liked.

Regardless of who it is, I just hope someone can bring back the fire to Sections 1 & 2.

I believe most of us in the "unofficial" know support you DJ and the first 8 or so guys in the student section. Of whom I probably could identify by name or dress I'm such a crowd nerd am I,lol.Your doing a good job DJ and I know personally the players appreciate all of the" clean" suport you try to provide them.

Its the according to "unofficial" official reports the other 200-300 students milling about when a basketball game breaks out.....

Hang in there guys, my grandson will be a freshman up there in approximately 2029-2030. I have a strong suspicsion he will not need any help creating crowd noise.

350? That's 10% of the student body. We've got to do better than that. I brought a friend to the game (Gonzaga law alum, unfortunately) and he commented that the average age of fans in attendance was probably about 48. I told him that was an improvement from previous years...used to be about 68.

Well obviously there is a fine line between general ribbing of the opposition and a vulgar verbal rant...

There is only so much the school can do to "produce" crowd experience, this isn't the NBA, you can't create atmosphere with Usher, Lil John and Ludacris and other piped in noise (Note: the NBA has zero atmosphere whatsoever). As Stoney has mentioned it all comes down to student initiative and leadership. The original PP was a purely organic creation of 12 upperclassmen that through a lot of grass roots efforts (literally going around the dorms to drum kids up) convincing people to attend games. It started slow, but once people heard about it the word of mouth was insane and response, overwhelming by the end of the season.

Now, little secret that may be a new knowledge (haha, not really)... frothy amber beverages WERE served before games, BUT because we had a solid leadership core we were able to keep it under control and make sure the focus was on the game itself. That meant the pre-functions cleared out well before tip off and we shepherded the masses to the games. Not that hard to do as long as you have a good amount of people willing to keep it all about the game, and not just about the frothy beverage.

We would print out and sing the fight song, give little harmless facts to heckle the other team about, all sorts of things to make rooting together more unified. We didn't yell at people for not participating, just worked to create an atmosphere that was fun for everyone else to join in. Not rocket science. Haha and as far as the Saturday/Thursday game attendance, I really don't buy that either. If people know they are going to have fun, they are going to go.

Now, I don't mean to get the "back in my day" vibe going, but my day wasn't THAT long ago, we still listened to the hippity hop back then too. You get a decent sized group of committed leaders, you can bring the energy back to the CC. And I understand that it might be tough for this year (Which really is unfortunate, this team deserves better), but if the sophomores and juniors can start building up for next year now, hopefully the tide can be turned on this relatively embarrassing situation.

I think the years prior to PP the focus was too much on the sauce pre-funk...but that was Chavez-era Pilot hoops and it was nearly a necessity to roll into Chiles at least a bit buzzed. But now, I don't get it, the team is actually good and getting better and I'm listening to piped in crowd noise?

And admittedly the 2nd year of PP got back into that sauced up routine... A lot of that had to do with the new leaders kind of losing focus on why we started the whole thing to begin with. Every since then the student body has kind of been a disorganized wreck.

Interesting comments about the fight song. I noticed that not even the dance team did the V-I-C-T-O-R-Y yell during the fight song.

I attribute this entire downfall in sports enthusiasm to the raising of admission standards since my days on the Bluff.

up7587 wrote:Interesting comments about the fight song. I noticed that not even the dance team did the V-I-C-T-O-R-Y yell during the fight song.

I attribute this entire downfall in sports enthusiasm to the raising of admission standards since my days on the Bluff.

starting to sound like our "sister" message board, ndnation.com

First things first... DJ, you're the man. What you did last night (one of a handful of guys standing on the front row) is what myself, MattyWizz, Rochin54, and DaTruRochin all did when we were students together. Believe me, we spent years doing it. It wasn't until our senior year that we finally got sick of it and worked to really do something about it. So no worries, my man... everyone is on your side, and you shouldn't feel responsible for your peer's lack of volume. You're fighting the good fight.

And while 350 may not seem like a big number, it actually is... 10% of the student body, when you think about it, is pretty great for an 8PM game on a Thursday night. People can believe what they want, but the student turnout this year has been really, really good. Getting them to the game isn't the problem... getting them cheering while at the game has been.

And honestly, there's really nothing anybody can do to make it happen. It needs to happen organically and it needs to become part of the culture. This is where leadership comes in. I know I keep harping on it, but I know it's true. I never thought we could get the whole student section standing and cheering all game either until we went to a game with a bunch of people willing to stand in the front few rows and cheer, and wouldn't you know it... then everyone was. A few games of that, and it became just part of what happens at UP basketball games. I know it sounds way too simplistic, but really it was as easy as that.

The frustrating thing on my part is that I met with a bunch of students before the season to talk about this type of stuff. I told them all about how Purple Pride worked when we started it up... about how, yes, we had parties but we pulled the taps 10-15 minutes prior to game time (and hid them!) and forced everyone out of the parties. While at the parties, we sang the fight song, we practiced cheers, we talked about the opponents... there was never a doubt that this party was about gearing up for the game, not just a hang-out and meet freshman girls party (*cough* Mikha, Purple Pride killer *cough*). Ha ha! Just kidding, Mikha. Sort of.

I guess more than anything, it bums me out that there haven't been some students to really take ownership in it. And DJ, I'm not talking about you... you're still young and you are taking ownership. I'm talking about the upper-classmen guys who show up in droves to the big weekend games but pull a disappearing act for other games. Where are the guys that feel like it's their responsibility to get the students rolling? Where are the guys that feel pride in supporting their team? Where are the guys who understand how important the student section is to the success of the program?

That's what I mean when I say we need leadership... it's not about having a few guys who are "in charge." Because, yeah, anyone can buy a couple of kegs and throw a party. It's about having guys who have the right mindset.

And I don't mean this in a negative way... like I said, it took us years until we finally did it. But, of course, we had a lousy team and weren't trying to desperately hang onto our coach.

That's the thing that scares me... one thing that scares me about Reveno is that as loyal as he is and as great of a guy he is, I know that he really cares about having great fan support and, especially, great student support. He is giving every ounce of himself to make this program better, and I think it's fair to say that the students have not matched the amount he puts in. And I could understand if he says... hey, we just gave you back-to-back 20 win seasons, and we still only get 8 guys standing up for a nationally televised conference game that is crucial as we battle for 2nd place?

I still have faith, and I'm sure the students will be great on Saturday. It's easy to be great on a Saturday evening for a critical game, and it's terrific - and I mean this - that so many kids will come out and support the team. I just wish it would carry over a bit better to the not-so-easy games.

Forgot to mention... about both the referee and Larry Williams talking to the students last night... here's my take on it.

Believe me, it's not about going after a particular player. That happens in every gym, every night. With that little mohawk of his, Matt Dorr has heard much worse in many other gyms.

The problem was that the kid - and I hate to point fingers, but this same kid has caused problems before with this exact same behavior - was basically on the court, leaning over the courtside seats and right in Dorr's ear on an in-bound play coming out of a time-out. The ref was right nearby, and told the kid a few times "Knock it off. That's enough."

Which is rare for a ref to do, but obviously well within his rights. If the kid wouldn't have been using profanity, it probably wouldn't have elicited such a reaction.

So, understandably... Larry was not happy to see a ref give a student a warning like that. Of course he wants a loud, rowdy student section, but he also wants them to keep it within reason... and, honestly, the last time I can even remember a ref talking to a student was the game in 2004 when good old Zack Attack got kicked out for screaming "Get up, you p***y!" to an opposing player who had just torn his ACL. The ref turned around, shocked, pointed right at him, and booted him right there. Ha ha... oh man, and his parents were there and saw him get escorted out by public safety. Good times.

But anway, back to last night... since it's so rare for a ref to talk to a student, it's no surprise that Larry came and talked to the student too. And as far as I know, Larry didn't kick him out, just told him to knock it off. Which... let's be honest... is extremely fair to that kid, who, again, has been a problem throughout the season.

I agree in total with Stonehouse's coments......

MesaPilot1 wrote:I agree in total with Stonehouse's coments......

Indeed. I was very disappointed watching it on TV last night/this morning. I was expecting WAY more student cheering and chanting going on.

Insert Stoney's comments here.

As far as this game was concerned. Our defense won us the game. The steals that led to opportunities in the 2nd half were great. I know I've been harping on this, but our defense is what leads us to our killer offense. We'll need to bring the D tomorrow night!

up7587 wrote:I attribute this entire downfall in sports enthusiasm to the raising of admission standards since my days on the Bluff.

Finally, you admit that I'm way more brilliant than you!

It seemed like we came out pretty sluggish to start the game, but once we kicked into gear, USD never had a chance. TJ was in a funk all through the Zag game and it carried over into the first half of this one, but it was an encouraging sign for him to start hitting shots again in the second half.

Bill Grier is coming dangerously close to pulling a Chavez: winning big early and making the NCAAs with someone else's recruits, then tanking and leaving the program in terrible shape.

Grier at USD:
2007-08: 22-14, 11-3 WCC, NCAA Second Round
2008-09: 16-16, 6-8 WCC, WCC Quarterfinals
2009-10: 9-17, 2-8 WCC, ?
Total: 47-47, 19-19 WCC

Chavez' first three seasons at UP:
1994-95: 21-8, 10-4 WCC, WCC Final
1995-96: 19-11, 7-7 WCC, NCAA First Round
1996-97: 9-18, 4-10 WCC, WCC First Round
Total: 49-37, 21-21 WCC

I agree with Stonehouse's comments as well.

The thing that bugs me is that just yelling profanities at a player is the "easy" way out... there are much more effective things to yell, if you do a little homework, are creative and know what to say & when to say it. For example, the infamous "We play Harder" chant, or reminding the subject player about their poor choice in hairstyle, or the airball that they recent had, the missed freethrows, lazy defense, etc. That's how you get in their heads. Not by yelling random profanities.

PilotNut wrote:I agree with Stonehouse's comments as well.

The thing that bugs me is that just yelling profanities at a player is the "easy" way out... there are much more effective things to yell, if you do a little homework, are creative and know what to say & when to say it. For example, the infamous "We play Harder" chant, or reminding the subject player about their poor choice in hairstyle, or the airball that they recent had, the missed freethrows, lazy defense, etc. That's how you get in their heads. Not by yelling random profanities.

Suck my Dickau. Best. Chant. Ever.

Free Throw Shooting:
Portland: 13-14 (92.9%)
San Diego: 3-10 (30%)

Rebounding:
Portland: 31
Sandy Eggo: 20

Portland: W
San Diego: L

DJ, you aren't allowed to apologize for the students' section's lack of inspiration. You are probably the single best and most dedicated bball fan on campus.

Whip yo' Dickau, that was a good one too....

maybe the answer is to have the admissions office cull thru applications and pick a certain nbr. who had been cheer leaders, rally squad members, etc or otherwise active in student activities outside of the classroom but linked to athletics. Males who had played sports in high school would also help perhaps. A shot in the dark.