UP vs. SCU 2/28

Page 2 of 2 Previous  1, 2

View previous topic View next topic Go down

Re: UP vs. SCU 2/28

Post by navigator on Sun Mar 01, 2009 12:00 pm

After watching big John lumber up the court the St. M game, it looks like after a couple of weeks he moves up court a little quicker. I really like the way he played, good strong finishes at the bucket.

I can't quite agree that I like Rev's subsitution pattern. We had Porter, TJ, Robin, Stohl and I think Luke in the San Diego game coming back and playing good team ball. (which seems to have gone by the wayside the last 6 games or so) Should have run with them a bit and see what they could have done. I can't stand watching four guys standing around.

Foul shooting was bad, but if they don't revert to playing team ball again they will be lucky to win even one game with even the lower conference giving them a run for their money.

I'd rather shoot a three with Stohl and TJ than have our big guy go up against three opponents and throw up something at the area of the basket.

navigator
Recruit
Recruit

Number of posts : 59
Registration date : 2007-11-03

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: UP vs. SCU 2/28

Post by goldhelmet on Sun Mar 01, 2009 12:45 pm

I agree Nav, 275 sounds like an ideal weight. I mean, Kramer is 260 if I'm not mistaken, and JH is a different body type, so you don't want him slimming down any more than 275 (at least I don't think so). It's "light" enough to where he can get up and down the floor and he can get in good aerobic condition to play extended minutes. But it keeps him big enough to where he's still a huge load for the opposition to contend with in the paint. In that respect, he is also going to be adding lean muscle mass when he gets into weight room, so he could ADD ten pounds of muscle and that would need to be taken into consideration. It's not such much weight that he needs to lose, but body fat. If he can lose 45-50 pounds of body fat and add 10-15 punds of muscle, I'm fine with him even playing at 285.

goldhelmet
Bench Warmer
Bench Warmer

Number of posts : 269
Age : 55
Location : Lake Oswego, Oregon
Registration date : 2007-04-28

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: UP vs. SCU 2/28

Post by Geezaldinho on Sun Mar 01, 2009 12:55 pm

You guys marvel at Big John's size in one breath, then want to turn him into a beanpole in the next.

He's a BIG guy he can handle some weight. It would , of course be to his advantage to turn the baby fat into muscle mass, But Shack in his prime was well over 300, and he's not any taller than John.

Geezaldinho
Pilot Nation Legend
Pilot Nation Legend

Number of posts : 10316
Location : Hopefully, having a Malbec on the square in Cafayate, AR
Registration date : 2007-04-28

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: UP vs. SCU 2/28

Post by onetouchfutbol on Sun Mar 01, 2009 1:48 pm

The last time I checked, 275 lbs and 7'1 would not be an accurate description of a beanpole. Wasn't Sabonis' playing weight around there? Anyway, body fat% is more important than weight. He just has to improve his overall conditioning so that he can run, switch on defense, etc. Honestly if he does that, I don't care so much how much he loses...

onetouchfutbol
All-American
All-American

Number of posts : 2203
Age : 45
Location : Seattle, WA
Registration date : 2008-10-05

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: UP vs. SCU 2/28

Post by mattywizz on Sun Mar 01, 2009 1:51 pm

This seems to have turned into the John "Lava Lamp" Hegarty thread...But I have a question. I only saw him a little in the San Diego game, but do you guys all think Rev made the right decision to "waste" his redshirt year by playing him this late in the season? Obviously if he is a significant contributor in the tourney and we win it is obviously the right decision. But I just wonder if he should have kept him on the bench. It doesn't really matter, because it has already happened, and obviously Rev knows more than I do. Just wondering what everyone else thinks.

mattywizz
Playmaker
Playmaker

Number of posts : 1230
Age : 34
Location : La Crosse, WI
Registration date : 2007-07-27

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: UP vs. SCU 2/28

Post by Geezaldinho on Sun Mar 01, 2009 1:53 pm

Some of it may have been what John wanted to do...

Geezaldinho
Pilot Nation Legend
Pilot Nation Legend

Number of posts : 10316
Location : Hopefully, having a Malbec on the square in Cafayate, AR
Registration date : 2007-04-28

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: UP vs. SCU 2/28

Post by Geezaldinho on Sun Mar 01, 2009 2:08 pm

athleticjames wrote:The last time I checked, 275 lbs and 7'1 would not be an accurate description of a beanpole. Wasn't Sabonis' playing weight around there? Anyway, body fat% is more important than weight. He just has to improve his overall conditioning so that he can run, switch on defense, etc. Honestly if he does that, I don't care so much how much he loses...

Maybe you never saw Sabonis in his youth, but he came at the issue from the other side. He WAS a beanpole - and probably one of the most mobile centers before his legs gave out.


My memory of Sabonis as a Blazer was him getting pushed and bumped all over the floor by Shack. John will never be the skinny Sabonis. Maybe making sure he doesn't become the undersize old Sabonis is the way to go. I loved it last night when he just muscled Bryant out of the paint.

Arvidas article

Geezaldinho
Pilot Nation Legend
Pilot Nation Legend

Number of posts : 10316
Location : Hopefully, having a Malbec on the square in Cafayate, AR
Registration date : 2007-04-28

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: UP vs. SCU 2/28

Post by goldhelmet on Sun Mar 01, 2009 2:22 pm

Purplegeezer wrote:You guys marvel at Big John's size in one breath, then want to turn him into a beanpole in the next.

He's a BIG guy he can handle some weight. It would , of course be to his advantage to turn the baby fat into muscle mass, But Shack in his prime was well over 300, and he's not any taller than John.

Geez - Who said anything about turning him into a beanpole? I don't think he'd be a beanpole at 275-285. I'm even fine with him being 295 if he can play 20 plus minutes at that weight and keep up. Like I said, once he hits the weight room, he'll be adding muscle mass, and muscle weighs more than fat. I think people get too hung up on weight sometimes, and should focus more on muscle to fat, aerobic conditioning, strength, body composition, etc. You can be 300 pounds and be a slob, or be an incredible physical specimen. I want him to be BIG John, and be the best BIG John he can be. I certainly don't want to turn him into Kramer or Robin , and that wouldn't be smart (although John would look kind of funny with Robin's body) because he has a completely different frame and body composition.

Honestly, I don't think Shaq in his prime is a very good example for comparative purposes. First of all Shaq was a physical freak of nature. Second, he was incredibly muscular during his prime, which would add to his weight tremendously as previously stated (muscle weighs more than fat).

goldhelmet
Bench Warmer
Bench Warmer

Number of posts : 269
Age : 55
Location : Lake Oswego, Oregon
Registration date : 2007-04-28

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: UP vs. SCU 2/28

Post by Geezaldinho on Sun Mar 01, 2009 2:39 pm

Wilt chamberlain's height was alternately listed as 7'1" or 7'2".

His weight is listed as 275 most places I look, including wikipedia.

Here's what he looked like


That will never be John.

Geezaldinho
Pilot Nation Legend
Pilot Nation Legend

Number of posts : 10316
Location : Hopefully, having a Malbec on the square in Cafayate, AR
Registration date : 2007-04-28

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: UP vs. SCU 2/28

Post by goldhelmet on Sun Mar 01, 2009 5:10 pm

Geez - That is a very early photo of Wilt and there is no way he was 275 in that photo. If you look at pictures of Wilt when he was with the Lakers, he doesn't look ANYTHING like that skinny Harlen Globetrotter guy. Wilt was one of the strongest men to ever play in the NBA, and his Laker self is NOTHING like that Globetrotter photo.

Again, who said Big John HAS to be 275? Not me. Go back and read what I said. Again, it's not about weight, it's about muscles mass/body fat/aerobic conditioning/strength/body composition. I would be just fine with John at 285-295, provided he's losing body fat and adding muscle and strength.

Comparing John with players of different body type and the same height is pointless. Apples and oranges. John does need to lose some body fat. The players you mentioned are not comparable in terms of the body fat and body composition. But there is no precise weight that John has to be at. Again, I'd be just fine with him at 295 as long as he can get in playing shape and can play extended minutes at high quality D1 level, without losing his BIG John factor. But he does need to lose some body fat and gain strength, as do most freshman in D1 athletics.


Last edited by goldhelmet on Sun Mar 01, 2009 5:17 pm; edited 1 time in total

goldhelmet
Bench Warmer
Bench Warmer

Number of posts : 269
Age : 55
Location : Lake Oswego, Oregon
Registration date : 2007-04-28

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: UP vs. SCU 2/28

Post by onetouchfutbol on Sun Mar 01, 2009 5:15 pm

Purplegeezer wrote:Some of it may have been what John wanted to do...

Yeah, I agree ultimately Hegarty I'm sure was probably involved in the decision as to whether play this year or not use his eligiblity. As far as I'm concerned, if we didn't play him sometime soon we could possibly have lost him as a recruit. There were plenty of places in the New England area that probably would have gladly had him instead of UP that would have been much closer to home.

----------------------------------------------------------------

I think that comparing Hegarty and his physique to Shaq, Sabas, or Wilt is ridiculously unfair to say the least. But, I think Rev himself has said that he wants Hegarty to lose some more weight.

onetouchfutbol
All-American
All-American

Number of posts : 2203
Age : 45
Location : Seattle, WA
Registration date : 2008-10-05

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: UP vs. SCU 2/28

Post by Geezaldinho on Sun Mar 01, 2009 5:29 pm

goldhelmet wrote:Geez - That is a very early photo of Wilt and there is no way he was 275 in that photo. If you look at pictures of Wilt when he was with the Lakers, he doesn't look ANYTHING like that skinny Harlen Globetrotter guy. Wilt was one of the strongest men to ever play in the NBA, and his Laker self is NOTHING like that Globetrotter photo.

OK, here's a Laker Wilt still in his prime against Bill Russell , certainly in the 275 region all his bios say he was.-- still nothing like what John could ever hope to be. That's a skinny dude compared to what Rev has to work with. 275 on someone 7'1" isn't all that much.



and you did mention John at 275, even if only as the low end of a 275-285 range.. even the higher of those numbers doesn't seem to fit.

I'd be ecstatic if John got to 300, but only if it helped his mobility and fitness. What we have is a guys who's game is as a big, bruising, wide body.

How about we just agree he ought to lose a bit of weight and get fit enough so he could contribute 25-30 minutes if he had to?

Geezaldinho
Pilot Nation Legend
Pilot Nation Legend

Number of posts : 10316
Location : Hopefully, having a Malbec on the square in Cafayate, AR
Registration date : 2007-04-28

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: UP vs. SCU 2/28

Post by MesaPilot1 on Sun Mar 01, 2009 7:36 pm

I PLEAD GUILTY TO PILING ON AND ADDING TO THE "BIG JOHN" THREAD.


How about this one....John did a year in Prep school....so basically he's the same age as Jason. The age that needs to start triming the fat a little. I overexaerated to get my point accross about his weight seeming to hold him back. It doesn't too much, but it's alot to do with affecting his endurance,NOT his actual weight literally. His body type is a pleasent problem that is great for the conditioning coach to deal with. He's probably already dreaming up weight,stretching, and nutritional program's for John's next 3 yr's here.

For lack of a better thought, I'm done with talking about John's weight this year. If I don't I'm going to start sounding like those "Donkey's" on the Zaggete web site who have whinned about Foster's play and weight throughout his career. (the poor kid,7'6") and only a Junior. Man, he's really going to get tortured by those donk's for another year. Austin Daye is another example of empathis that I've been guilty of myself. If only we had a soft ,skinny foward of his caliber we would probably be ranked in the top 20.
I'm all for starting a thread that TJ is too muscular,we need him to start working out with the Cross-Country Team next fall to lose weight before the BB season.

Oh, by the way, Kramer is 243lb, that's what a little birdy told me. Robin an inch taller look's to be about 230lb. An earlier post by someone on PN brought up the good pt about weight's and height's being incorect....ie If TJ is 5'9" Im 6'7" in that fantasy world.

affraid affraid I'm am currently feeling like Nav. , if we don't get our act together,will be one and done at tourney with no NIT invite.
(But I still like Rev.s substitution pattern's Razz Razz )


I feel like--- John Hegarty's MOtherPilot1 aka MesaPilot1


Last edited by MesaPilot1 on Sun Mar 01, 2009 7:42 pm; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : You guy's can worry about your weight, I'm having a glass of milk with my MnM's tonight)

MesaPilot1
Playmaker
Playmaker

Number of posts : 1104
Registration date : 2007-04-28

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: UP vs. SCU 2/28

Post by goldhelmet on Sun Mar 01, 2009 8:49 pm

How about we just agree he ought to lose a bit of weight and get fit enough so he could contribute 25-30 minutes if he had to?[/quote]

I did agree to that, repeatedly...

When I said 275, I was thinking in terms of fat loss, but I also clarified more than once that he should be adding about 10-20 pounds of muscle, which would net out to about 25-35 pound weight loss. That would put him in the 285-295 pound range, which I don't think is that much of a stretch. Chamberalin was still very lean in that photo, but he was alSO VERY MUSCULAR in his prime. Wilt was extremely strong - ask Willis Reed. As I pointed out, muscle weighs more than fat. John will likely never be as muscular as Wilt Chamberlain. So, if you take the muscles off Chamberlain and put him in what is likely John's lean muscle mass range, he weighs a lot less than 275. So, my point, once again for the umpteenth time, is that they they are different body types and you can't compare apples and oranges. 275 on Big John, is not going to look like Chamberlain, becaue of the different body types and muscle mass. Without the muscles, Wilt weighs more like 255, which is obviously not what we would be asking John to do.

It really depends on how much fat he loses and how much muscle he gains, but 290-295 would seem about right if he adds 15 pounds of muscle and loses about 40 pounds of fat.

goldhelmet
Bench Warmer
Bench Warmer

Number of posts : 269
Age : 55
Location : Lake Oswego, Oregon
Registration date : 2007-04-28

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: UP vs. SCU 2/28

Post by Geezaldinho on Sun Mar 01, 2009 9:22 pm

You have to understand. I'm getting a bit sensitive about that 275 pound figure. I've been putting on a few myself since I retired, and I don't want to see the day when my 5'10" frame and Big John's are carrying the same weight. Razz

Geezaldinho
Pilot Nation Legend
Pilot Nation Legend

Number of posts : 10316
Location : Hopefully, having a Malbec on the square in Cafayate, AR
Registration date : 2007-04-28

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: UP vs. SCU 2/28

Post by onetouchfutbol on Sun Mar 01, 2009 10:06 pm

Well, I'm sure it's no consolation, but, Wilt was only 250 lbs his rookie year. My impression has always been that he grew ridiculously fast to 7'1.
Here's a Youtube from the past:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-bW_qODlLFM

Big John might lose some weight, but, he's no All-American yet...

onetouchfutbol
All-American
All-American

Number of posts : 2203
Age : 45
Location : Seattle, WA
Registration date : 2008-10-05

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: UP vs. SCU 2/28

Post by goldhelmet on Sun Mar 01, 2009 10:20 pm

The 275 figure, now that I've thought about it some more, more than likely is too light for John. If he plays in the 285-300 range, he'll probably be fine. But if he's at 300, a lot of that baby fat does need to be replace by lean muscle mass.

Geez - I hear ya about being sensitive about weight issues. I'm dangerously close to that 275 figure myself, and I'm only 6'0. I need to lose about 75 lbs myself.

goldhelmet
Bench Warmer
Bench Warmer

Number of posts : 269
Age : 55
Location : Lake Oswego, Oregon
Registration date : 2007-04-28

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: UP vs. SCU 2/28

Post by Geezaldinho on Sun Mar 01, 2009 10:41 pm

Well, I'm not quite near it, but John's and My weight curves will intersect at some point if the current trend continues.

Geezaldinho
Pilot Nation Legend
Pilot Nation Legend

Number of posts : 10316
Location : Hopefully, having a Malbec on the square in Cafayate, AR
Registration date : 2007-04-28

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: UP vs. SCU 2/28

Post by mattywizz on Mon Mar 02, 2009 4:54 am

athleticjames wrote:
Purplegeezer wrote:Some of it may have been what John wanted to do...

Yeah, I agree ultimately Hegarty I'm sure was probably involved in the decision as to whether play this year or not use his eligiblity. As far as I'm concerned, if we didn't play him sometime soon we could possibly have lost him as a recruit. There were plenty of places in the New England area that probably would have gladly had him instead of UP that would have been much closer to home.

Good points, I didn't really think of it that way. It was probably the case that the plan all along was for him to play immediately. Then he went home for a little while and looked like he could possibly miss the whole season, but he came back. He probably talked it over with Rev and they decided to continue on with the original plan. Thanks for the input guys.

As far as the weight goes. Don't worry about it. It is just a number, probably one of the most overrated numbers. If you are talking about him losing some body fat and adding muscle, he will possibly GAIN weight. Seeing what the rest of the guys did between last year and this, I am confident that he will get done what needs to get done.

mattywizz
Playmaker
Playmaker

Number of posts : 1230
Age : 34
Location : La Crosse, WI
Registration date : 2007-07-27

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: UP vs. SCU 2/28

Post by MesaPilot1 on Mon Mar 02, 2009 10:23 am

On that note, Im breaking my golden rule. How about if he gain's some weight like mattywizz say's and we have the largest,most powerful twin tower's in WCC history.... One to rival Shaq and 7 foot Stanley Robert's at LSU.

We could start John 7foot, Jason 6-10 pwr foward, Kramer 6'9" or Sikma 6'8 at small fwd and Robin 6'10" OFF-guard, and all 5'7'' of TJ could handle the point.

Imagine our bench team Nik,Stohl,Sikma/Knutson,Ethan, and BJ that would be quite a bunch to hit em with off the bench about 2-3 minute's in.Remember that 80's song "only in my dreams>>, I just thought I'd throw it in....

Plus, our starting lineup would be the all-airport.......

MesaPilot1
Playmaker
Playmaker

Number of posts : 1104
Registration date : 2007-04-28

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Page 2 of 2 Previous  1, 2

View previous topic View next topic Back to top


 
Permissions in this forum:
You cannot reply to topics in this forum