Recruiting Update

Gotta agree with you Phantom, the coaching staff does an excellent job of recruiting players who mesh with each other and create a stronger team. I used to work with a woman who was was a star high school player in Oregon. She had scholarship offers everywhere. She opted for a school in the southwest because she wanted to play in the sun. She told me she really regretted it because despite having good players, they had personality clashes that the coaches did very little to ameliorate. She said it made it no fun to play and they never reached their potential.

Team chemistry is a big consideration. Clive used to put new recruits to a vote of the players. I don't know if the current staff does that, but they surely get input.

If you come to Portland, you have to be able (and willing) to play the style of ball Portland is famous for. That often requires checking your ego at the door. UP plays to set up the opportunity, not the player. Not all players a capable of doing that.

On another thread, we're talking about POY for Angie. Don't forget she moved outside to play next to Megan, though I'm sure she would have preferred the middle. I'm sure she could have lobbied hard to compete for the middle, but she didn't. She played outside on what became probably the best midfield in history-- with three natural center mids (Queeny moved outside too). That's one of the reasons we won it all in 2005. Now she's taken over the leadership of the current team, not by scoring, but by enabling other players to play to their strengths.

I know players on a couple of NW D1 teams, and they have fine players, but a lot of energy seems to be spent bickering over playing time and positions. I don't think that's a recipe for success.

To answer the #1 recruit question, I think Shannon and Tiffeny were highly recruited. They could have gone anywhere in the country they wanted (including North Carolina) I don't know you could say they were #1. Oregon was a bit of a backwater then, and the National programs weren't as well developed (some say regimented) as they are now. There were others who were considered top notch. Justi and Frenchie certainly were. Again- times were a bit different, and recruiting was more regional everywhere. More recently, we've benefited from the championships in recruiting and have been able to recruit more widely. Scifo was UP's first East Coast recruit. This year we got one from Georgia. That didn't used to happen. Go back in time, and we would get maybe 1 or 2 players from out of state( OK, maybe Washington, too).

Christine was a different story. She wasn't eligible for most of the accolades kids normally get in the USA, but she was a player everyone was desperate for. If anyone was considered the best recruit, it certainly would have been her. I think everyone saw her as a potential ticket to a championship. Apparently, Dorrance offered her a full scholarship, which not many players get there. They often carry 35 players. She took herself out of the running pretty early in the recruiting cycle. she just decided to play for Clive from the start. At that point, there was no incentive for other coaches to tout her. But think about it-- When did she become a starting striker on her National team, 14?

There are players who were considered recruiting "mistakes". They were fine players, and went on to play elsewhere with distinction, but their temperaments didn't fit well with the rest of the team. One of those came back to play us this year as captain of her team. I recall one player who played the last game of the season for us, and came back the next fall and played an early game for an opponent as co-captain---Scored a goal on us. She wanted to play in the middle, and Clive told her the team needed her on the wing. She got her wish, eventually. But it was on another team. And she elevated that team to a level they hadn't seen before or since.

Nobody is perfect in the recruiting game. Kids are still developing and the key is to figure out how a player will develop and how they'll fit, not necessarily where they are now.

One last thing- people get focussed on who's the #1 recruit. That's often hyped by clubs who have a interest in claiming that they produce those players. It's big business, and it's as much marketing as talent.

I was sitting in the student section on sunday and i do know that there were a couple recruits sitting behind me. Who they where I have no idea.

Phantom - Thanks for the review of the Tualatin HS game you saw last week. My gut reaction after reading it was disappointment. It sure doesn't sound like this is a player who would be a great Pilots fit. She sounds immature and not at all dedicated to the ideals that make up the character of a true champion.

Perhaps you caught her on a unique night. However, I doubt that very much. Great players possess much more than just talent. They are tenacious and determined regardless of who they are playing for and against.

Every action we take is a reflection on our character. Is it alright to have a bad night, not indicative of the usual person? Certainly. But if I hear anything else along these lines again during her high school years, I don't think I would want her on the Pilots, regardless of her talent level. I care about the team and the players too much to bring in a player that doesn't share the hallmark characteristics of a Pilots Women's Soccer player. That is a very high standard, indeed!

Geezer....I really really appreciate all that background you provided. Loved that Clive put new recruits to a vote with the players? What a guy! He was so smart to open "team-building" to his players....its taking them back to the basic playground thing of picking sides!

I had heard UNC seriously courted Tiffeny...but...I didn't know about Christine. Where would the Pilots be now if they had gobbled up those 2? We're so so lucky to have had Clive's vision to build a big-time national program come to fruition at UP. I've followed the program long enough to have heard stories of recruits signing on on to play for Clive...sometimes site unseen! Colleen Salisbury's letter writing campaign. I think I remember Lindsey Huie sent in her recruiting request by e-mail. Shannon Macmillian arriving in Portland via Greyhound Bus...all the way from San Diego! The story of Lisa Sari standing in the autograph line as a youngster.

That's just a few stories that come to mind. But...yes...you must have a big heart....first and foremost....to be a Pilot! Those gals bled Purple very very early for sure....even before they had a chance to put on a Pilot jersey!

Fanatic...I was disappointed with what I saw with Courtney last week but I'm going to give her a lot of leeway yet. She's only a junior this year and won't be available until the start of the 2009 season anyway. Lots of time for the Oregon phenom to mature. She was invited to the U-16 National Team Training Camp in Florida last April. But, I'll be interested to see how she does in the state playoffs. Can she take Tualatin HS to another Championship?

GUPhantom,

I don't think Christine even went on a visit to UNC before she decided, so there probably wasn't the awareness.

Maybe you don't know how soccer recruiting works. It's 2 years ahead. Courtney is being recruited RIGHT NOW for fall of 2009. expect that she will be wrapped up by somebody by New Year's , if she hasn't already told someone where she wants to go.

There isn't really the opportunity to wait and see if she matures. Right from the start of this season, the coaches work to get the commitments for 2009. First allowed campus visit was the FLA. ST. game. and they made a big push then. Reportedly, Courtney was here for that weekend. We don't really get to bring her back in unless she comes of her own volition and on her own dime. Right after the season, coaches try to finalize the class. Then in the Spring, they start researching 2010 and 2011 players.

UP will probably have their 2009 recruits by January. I'll bet they have 3 or 4 already. Then we can spend 8 months figuring out who they are. That's about how long it took this time.

Arcane NCAA rules prohibit schools from announcing recruits before a student or their families make it public. Schools are allowed one announcement for the whole class, and it has to be in certain time periods. That NCAA handbook I keep referring to has all that information in it. I think they could have signed and announced a week or two ago, but if UP has a chance at more players, you won't hear anything until February.

Once a player goes public with an oral commitment, other schools will stop recruiting that player. It's not a rule, but it's considered smarmy to go after someone else's oral commit. A player usually has to initiate going to a different school after an oral, which is non-binding. If you are tired of recruiters, just announce where you want to go--everyone else will leave you alone.

Yeah... I wouldn't read too much into one game of watching Verloo play. From what I've heard, she's just absolutely tremendous and would be an awesome addition to the program. Even though we are definitely a national program now (pulling more and more players from outside the Northwest) I still believe that getting the best local players - as long as they have the chops to make it on the team - should be a priority. And Verloo is easily the most highly touted prospect to come out of Oregon in a long time. Can't wait to see her in Purple!!!

Geezer... nice summary of recruiting. You nailed it!

Geez - Great lesson on soccer recruiting. Feel like I just attended a class on the subject by reading your post.

I was aware that recruiting is done two years ahead. And I did see Verloo and four other junior recruits at the Florida State game. She seemed very nice. No signs of a big head or anything. I was excited that she was there.

However, Phantom's post just seemed like a red flag to me. I am certainly willing to give her lots of leeway. I certainly was not Mr. Perfect at her age, and I still am not. (Wouldn't want to be, anyway). She's just a kid, really. Just like everyone else her age. (And a few grown-ups I can think of)!

One thing I didn't quite make clear on my last post is that the announcements that will come out in February are for the fall 2008 class-- the ones we know about already.

We won't officially know about the fall 2009 class until February of 2009.

I agree witht he point that it's great to have local players on the team, as well as good to see that UP can now attract players from across the country.

The defense on Sunday was from OES, Jesuit, Corvallis, and China! OK, Steph L started off in California but you get the picture.

Seems like not long ago the recuits came almost exclusively from OR, WA, CA, and BC. Now Utah and Colorado are regularly in the mix and Sara Jackman is from Texas.

In response to Purplegeezers post. Which players do you speak of in the announcement in February? Not sure if this is any kind of violation, just wondering. Thanks.

No violation. All the names we came up with are on the web someplace. you just have to be pretty resourceful to find them. sometimes the info is on limited access blogs, sometimes club websites, sometimes recruiting websites--it's all somewhere. You know the web---you can't hide anything. The hard part is sifting through a lot of useless stuff.

Stoney came up with four names in the first post of this thread. Olivier and McCluskie have info on personal profiles, and I saw them both on websites earlier in the season but wasn't sure ( I think we both started looking hard when someone else posted about McCluskie). Kreminski was quoted in a web edition of an idaho paper, Burke was recognized by Stoney in a picture along with the others.
Foxhoven (about 5 posts later) we pieced together from information we both had.--all perfectly legal and confirmed this weekend when they were seen having their pictures taken.


Stoney had most of it. I was able to confirm a lot of it independently. Confidence is high.

Thing is- there's one more face apparently, and it's not Burnache, as Stoney first thought. But I have no real idea at this point who it might be.

Back to the drawing board.....

Thanks for the lesson Geezer. I really appreciate your insights on Christine/UNC....and recruiting. Christine/UNC was epecially good stuff. How'd you come to know about that kind of inside information?

I was aware schools could court a player 2 years ahead of time but I did not know they could officially commit while still in their junior year of HS. So if I understand this 2 year recruiting cycle right…if Verloo (for example) does not make a decision to commit to a school her in her junior year…then she’ll literally have to endure the recruiting process all over again her senior year, right? How typical is it for schools to get early commitments from HS juniors? Would it be correct to assume then that Teresa Noyola (for example) was someone who did not commit in her junior year since she is visiting other schools yet in her senior year?

The Pilots are able to recruit nationally but I also believe that its important to sign and keep the best local talent in state. I hope to check out another game with Courtney. She still sparks my interest despite one lackadaisical performance!! I saw little that night….but Y’all be glad to know that my first impression of Courtney was that she seemed to be very Kendra-like. Has a smooth and easy way about her movement on the ball. I haven’t given up on her yet. What can I say? I’m a sucker for potential Pilot talent! Sometimes the movie trailer isn’t as telling as watching the whole movie. Know what I mean? I’m open and excited to watch her play a few more games. So…I’m going to grab some popcorn…sit in the stands and enjoy watching a young woman….who may grow up to someday become a Pilot heroine….play some futbol!

Phantom,

The Sinclair stuff isn't any special inside info. Christine was quoted as an aside once in an article that talked about why she came here. Don't ask me where. It was probably around the time Clive died, but I can't be sure. It might even have been in the alumni magazine. (Hint--read a lot of Canadian Newspapers if you want to find out about Christine-there's no end to articles.)

What I described as the recruiting cycle teams and players go through is done that way so players and teams know where they stand.

The key is that there is only one commitment that obligates a player. That's the Letter of Intent. The NCAA considers that a contract. Everything else is just talk. There is no official verbal commitment, as such. it's something some teams have players do, but it has no power. a player can back out anytime before the signing. There are two signing periods. One just passed, the second happens in February. Signing periods are just for players in 2008.

All the other stuff is mostly so coaches and players aren't hospitalized with anxiety attacks wondering what's going to happen. Teams usually ask for a private commitment by February (Earlier, really, so they can shape the new team), then maybe expect a verbal (public) sometime later, then a letter of intent in the first signing period the next fall unless there are special circumstances (academic, etc.) By the second signing period the next February, it's all over but the waiting. Some schools (UP is apparently one) don't really bother with the public verbal. It's not binding, and could be perceived as coercive-not a good way to start a relationship. A kid can speak up if they want (Kreminski did), but don't have to . Most of it is based on trust, but when UP officially announces the 2008 class in February (or sooner), the 2009 class is surely lined up- very few exceptions. The rest of the year is so kids get comfortable with their decision.

The whole process is in the NCAA handbook- article 13. There's also a recruiting timetable on the NCAA website that's geared towards parents and recruits.

There are rules for the first time you can speak to a player, watch a player, approach a player, Phone a player, offer a visit, what you can and can't do on a visit, how followups can and can't be done etc. etc.
There's also a period where no contact is allowed.
Good programs do that stuff right on time and right to the letter. if they are allowed visits from Sept 1 to October 15, the visit will be Sept 1. so there's time to fall back to someone else if the first recruit doesn't work out.

The first visit allowed this year for players for 2009 was the weekend of Sept. 1. Let's see.... when was the Florida State game?

As to Noyola, she might be able to stretch the process out if she's exceptional and a team thinks that they are close enough to landing her that it's worth passing up other good players while they wait. For most players, it's just too risky. If you wait too long, there may not be a spot. Schools often tell players there's an offer, but it's not open ended. If a player doesn't decide, they'll drop the offer and try for another player before they are all gone. I'll bet it's more likely that Noyola already knows where she wants to go. She's just shopping to make sure or wants a backup. In her particular case, I've seen stuff on the web that she's practiced a lot with Stanford players and wants to go there. Maybe there is an academic issue that's being resolved. (Stanford is hard to get into, but I read she's a bright kid).

Stanford fans are pretty confident (or they are delusional). That was before she saw a UP crowd. We'll see.

I might have to sneak out of the Retirement Castle and see Verloo play....

Professor Geezer...I've throughly enjoyed your presentation on recruiting! I've learned so much. Knowledge is power. Thanks for sharing. I'm inspired to become a well-informed fan...all the better to keep up with you guys. Talk about cruve breakers...the RPI-speak on another topic might take me a little longer to consume! Give me a chance to brushup on Article 13 first!