Breaking Roster News

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Breaking Roster News

Post by purpleisfierce on Sat May 03, 2008 10:14 am

Yesterday morning the coaching staff told Marcus Carter and Walter Thompson that they are not invited back to play at the University of Portland. How the coaching staff, and in particular head coach Reveno handled the situation was cold and selfish.

They informed both of these guys the day everybody was leaving school to avoid any uproar and keep their name clean. Walter was planning to leave Friday morning to go back home and Marcus was all signed up for 2 sessions of summer school. Excuse my language, but it was purely an act of the coaches covering their a$$es. They knew what their decision was on what they were going to do with these guys much earlier but waited for the first day of summer to inform them. These guys did not get the chance to say bye to the friends they made over the years here due to the fact that everybody was leaving for summer or had left already.

Their reasoning for letting these gentlemen go was that they were neither talented nor good enough to help the team win next year. These were some of the first few words out of Coach Rev's mouth. Out of the coaching staffs kind hearts they did their research before hand and sent the boys along with a list of schools that are interested in them. Better late then never I guess.

These two players were the last of the batch that Coach Rev did not recruit himself. I'm sure that had no weight in the decision to release these players.

This is not a good representation of the Pilot Basketball Program or the Athletic Program. I hope in the future Coach Rev and his coaching staff can deal with situations of player’s futures on the team in less of a cold hearted manner. These guys were some of the most respected and loved by their professors and the rest of the Pilot community. They should have received the same respect from their former coaches.

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Re: Breaking Roster News

Post by wrv on Sat May 03, 2008 11:32 am

Intersting and I add surprising news . . .sad for the players involved, Good luck to them.

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Re: Breaking Roster News

Post by Stonehouse on Sat May 03, 2008 12:05 pm

It's just a tough situation. I do feel badly for those guys, but I also understand it. Gonzaga, Santa Clara, Pepperdine, LMU... all of them are doing the exact same thing to make their programs better. And considering that WCC coaches have a shelf-life of about three or four years these days, if you don't start putting W's on the table, you are going to lose your job.

So I don't really know what to say other than it's a really difficult situation. But it's not out-of-line with what the other schools in the conference are doing. Ten years ago, this probably wouldn't happen. But these days in the WCC it's just so hyper-competitive.

I think we have to look at it this way... Reveno is doing what he feels necessary to make our team better. And after 12 straight losing seasons, I think I am OK with it.

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Re: Breaking Roster News

Post by wrv on Sat May 03, 2008 12:49 pm

Is it possible at all that these guys want to finish their education at the U? It is not overly difficult, particularly if each is only a year, or closer, to graduation. They both have had three full years and summers on scholarship. Both may want to continue playing, but at this point eduactional considerations are far more important to their future. Of course, I am not in their shoes, nor have I ever been. Finishing school may well bring significant opportunities they will not otherwise enjoy. As it appears from the post that they are virtually certain to change schools, good luck to them.

What does this mean for the team? Is it likely a player or two will be signed? I suspect so . . .

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Re: Breaking Roster News

Post by PilotNut on Sat May 03, 2008 1:25 pm

Agreed that this is a tough situation... I feel bad for Thompson and Carter, but the truth is we dont know all sides to the story...

I am sure that if either of them want to stay on The Bluff, the school will do what it can to find academic scholarships for the guys. But if they are hoops players at heart, I think they will transfer to play somewhere else.

This is a sign of the times... WCC hoops is a competitive gig these days, and in my opinion, we need to be making some tough "growing pains" decisions like these to improve just as everyone else is. We must grow the program.

Best of luck to Carter & Thompson, and to the coaching staff to fill in their spots... GO PILOTS!

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future scholarships

Post by piloted on Sat May 03, 2008 2:53 pm

seems somewhat odd timing; if they sign 2 new players it would appear that they would have no scholarships to give after the 2008-2009 season? Haven't they offered Mike Moser and Larry Richards already? In the slim chance either of them accepted, there may not be a spot for them. Best of luck to Thompson and Carter though, to bad it did not work out. Exciting to think about future though.

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Re: Breaking Roster News

Post by goldhelmet on Sat May 03, 2008 3:48 pm

I don't agree with the "it's OK because everybody else is doing it" philosophy. Whether an action is ethically right or wrong, does not or should not depend on what one other person is doing or 1000 or persons are doing. That's ratioanalization and "situational ethics" that ebb and flow depending on what others are doing. The act itself is either right or wrong, or somewhere in between. I'm not saying anything about whether this act it is right or wrong or somewhere in between, I'm just saying whether it is or isn't does not and should not depend at all depend on what other programs are or are not doing. That's not a valid reason to justify an act. That's a question that those programs have to answer for themselves, and it should not be our concern. This, of course, assumes that we care about running a program that "does things the right way" and treats people fairly. If that is not the case, well, I'd say we've lost sight of what this University is all about.

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Re: Breaking Roster News

Post by PilotNut on Sat May 03, 2008 4:32 pm

Does signing a player/giving a scholarship obligate a school to give a scholarship for 4 years?

I dont know the answer to this... just asking the question.

Athletes abandon schools all the time to transfer elsewhere due to not getting enough playing time, coaching changes, etc.... does a school have the ability to end a relationship too? Or just the player? What if a player isnt working out or holding up their end of the deal?

I am not stating an opinion either way, just throwing it out there.

Doesn't this situation happen quite frequently in other sports, but just doesnt get the attention that hoops or football does? confused

Let's also keep in mind that we do not know the whole situation here, the discussions, agreements, etc... Carter and Thompson may also have been offered academic scholarships... (if they were, does that change the situation?)

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Re: Breaking Roster News

Post by up7587 on Sat May 03, 2008 4:42 pm

The situation is too bad, but I am not clear that it is the wrong way to proceed. If students don't perform they are kicked out. If teachers don't perform they don't get tenure. If coaches don't perform they get fired. Same with the rest of us on our jobs. This had nothing to do with who recruited the players. They were brought into the program to play ball, and to improve as players. They were given full scholarships; not inconsequential when many students at today's graduation are leaving with large loan balances, and most athletes in other sports get by with partial scholarships at best. If these two players didn't improve, or weren't good enough compete, I don't see that the U. is obligated to let them enjoy front row seats until their eligibility runs out and use up spots that could go to other players.

The school and the coaching staff have an obligation to recruit players that can succeed academically and athletically at Portland. The athletes have the obligation to work hard and succeed on the court and in the classroom. In college football, you often see players transfer when they are not going to see playing time. It was pretty obvious that Carter and Thompson were not going to see much playing time, after they couldn't get on the court as juniors on a team full of freshmen. If they elected not to transfer then the coaches needed to make hard decisions for the good of the program. Difficult for all involved.

BTW, it looks like the Pilots will continue to be one of the youngest teams in the country next year.

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Re: Breaking Roster News

Post by Geezaldinho on Sat May 03, 2008 4:56 pm

PilotNut wrote:Does signing a player/giving a scholarship obligate a school to give a scholarship for 4 years?

According t NCAA and National Letter of Intent rules, it's illegal for a school to promise scholarships for more then the following year, so they have to be renewed each year.
here's the first two FAQ's at national letter.org

NOLI FAQ's

When I sign a National Letter of Intent what do I agree to do?
When you sign the National Letter of Intent you agree to attend for one academic year the institution listed on the Letter in exchange for that institution awarding athletics financial aid for one academic year.


Do I sign a National Letter of Intent every year?
No. Although under NCAA rules you must be notified annually regarding whether your athletics aid has been renewed, you only sign an NLI when you first enroll in a four-year institution or if you are a four-two-four (4-2-4) transfer student.


Last edited by Purplegeezer on Sat May 03, 2008 10:06 pm; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : can't spell)

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Re: Breaking Roster News

Post by PilotNut on Sat May 03, 2008 4:58 pm

Thanks for the info, Geezer... I didnt really mean a "legal" obligation... rather a "moral" obligation for 4 years...

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Re: Breaking Roster News

Post by wrv on Sat May 03, 2008 6:36 pm

In evaluating the ethics of the coaches' decision, it would help to know what the coaching staff is promising parents when they bring in prospective recruits. If it is illegal to do other than promise one year, is the staff nonetheless suggesting they do not pull scholarships, ever?

I think there were a couple of players who were invited to leave early under Holton as well. Given that, I doubt he violated NCAA rules. And I lean toward an explanation that the coaches scrupiously avoid promising four years. Hmmn?

Accordingly, a goal of not pulling the scholarship of any player does not necessarily make it unethical to do so when a player cannot perform to expected levels, despite effort. On the other hand, if you profess never to do it in other venues, perhaps away from the players and parents, or claim a higher level of moral rectitude because you do not pull scholarships, then doing it when the going gets tough is unseemly, maybe unethical given the standards you profess.

I do not know exactly what to think here, but I do think that the coaches at the U should be held to the standards they profess when winning or when the pressure to win is not as great, as in your first two years.

From a talent evaluation standpoint, no one can reasonably argue that either of these players would meaningfully contribute next year. And, we know that Reveno mentioned that the team passed on an athletic wing to recruit the new point Campbell. I suspect the coaching staff has a player or two in mind that they think can help this team next year. The news in the next week or so could be interesting.

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Re: Breaking Roster News

Post by wrv on Sat May 03, 2008 6:41 pm

One more thing, it is not exactly the equivalent of exiling the players. They have the alternative of finishing school and then joining the rabble, or even going elsewhere to pursue hoop dreams . . .

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Re: Breaking Roster News

Post by goldhelmet on Sat May 03, 2008 10:48 pm

If their scholarships were taken away, simply because they "wern't good enough on the court", I would definitely have a problem with that. If UP is just trying to free up scholarships so they can bring in other players and take their scholarships, I would have a problem with that as well. If they had the option of finishing their academic careers on scholarship, then I'm OK with it. But what would be the point of cutting them loose unless it was to being other players in to the program? So I would have to assume that is the motive of cutting them loose. If that's the case, I'm very dissapointed in Larry Williams and Fr. Beauchamp, knowing from where they came. Notre Dame is in under much, much more pressure to win than UP is, and they never, ever, do this to people simply because they didn't turn out to be as good on the field as they thought they would. I would challenge anyone to cite a case where ND has done that to a student-athlete. They are allowed to play on the team and finish their academic careers under full scholarship. They may not play, but they aren't jettisoned like this. I know some people don't like me talking about ND, and that's fine, but I think it's fair to talk about in this case because we're run by the same order of priests, the schools (supposedly) have similar values, and our administrators came from ND.

The student-athlete shouldn't suffer the consequences because the coaches & administration (regardless of from what regime, because the students have no control over that) made a mistake in recruiting them in terms of talent evaluation/projection. If the student doesn't live up to his/her academic repsonsibilties, that's an entirely different issue. But to let them go simply because "this person isn't as good on the court as we thought they would be", is completely wrong in my book. They are students who happen to play a sport. They are not in the "real world" yet. So, I don't buy the "performance" argument. They're primary repsonsibilty "to perform" is in the classroom. If it's a dsiciplinary issue on the team, that's an entirely different issue. But cutting them loose because they turn out not to be as good on the court as we initially thought, and because a coach is under pressure to win, really stinks to me. Especially when, in the same breath, the University espouses that it subscribes to high ethical/moral standards at the same time as a selling point (which it very definitely does).

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Re: Breaking Roster News

Post by LionsTheChamp on Sun May 04, 2008 12:38 am

I guess the Gonzaga effect is in full force with this decision. With USD, SCU and LMU hitting hard on recruiting , coach Rev is probably feeling the pressure to upgrade his team more this year.

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Re: Breaking Roster News

Post by MesaPilot1 on Sun May 04, 2008 9:51 am

Has there been official word of this happening? What a bummer for these two young men.
I bet Rev was at the JUCO all-star game. It will be interesting to see who he brings in.I could see that leading to many new topics.

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