Will Porter be gone if they run the table in conference?

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Post by DoubleDipper on Fri Mar 01, 2019 11:21 am

SoCalPilot wrote:What's the latest on those intending to transfer?
Too soon to know...

Under the current "free agency" rules, student-athletes and coaches are able to go shopping for better opportunities, but a player, coach, or parent must get permission from the player's current school before contact is made....and a school cannot deny that permission unless "tampering" is suspected.

Although there may be some news prior, I doubt we'll really know anything of substance before the NCAA Final on April 8 or the beginning of the NLI signing period nine days later.

There have been some rumored moves by UP players, and TP has said he'd like to get some transfers to add experience to the roster, but obviously any school that wants to sign a transfer must first find a scholarship opening.

UP has 12 scholarship players on the roster, but has two signings for next year, Donyae McCaskill, and Cody Collinsworth, for a net minus-one scholarship available! (Yes, Brian Smith was given the open scholarship for this semester, but will revert to walk-on status at the end of the school year).

Three UP scholarship players graduate in May...Crisshawn, Josh, and Franklin.  Knowing he's not currently playing at the level he's capable of after so long away from the game, Crisshawn definitely wants to play one more year, but wants to explore grad school possibilities before deciding where he will go, or if he will stay. Without going into detail, Josh is having difficulty get a 5th year from the NCAA and has some professional opportunities in the UK, and Franklin is likely to grad-transfer.

So even if TP wants transfers and JUCO players, he's going to have to "encourage" someone to leave the team to clear scholarship space, and of course if TP "transfers," all bets are off. Rolling Eyes
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Post by JimmAlacki on Fri Mar 01, 2019 1:07 pm

I predict two players will transfer to a "better school" talent wise than UP. With those two leaving next year's team significantly worse than the past 3 years.

UP is a good academic school. The others would be crazy to transfer to a D2 program or give up the education at UP

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Post by up7587 on Tue Mar 12, 2019 6:07 pm

I think the definitive answer to this question can be found here.
@PortlandHoops wrote:With the season over, we’re stoked to start getting ready for our annual summer camps. Check out all of the summer’s offerings at http://portlandpilots.com/camps , and we can’t wait to see you soon!

Portland Men's Basketball is tweeting out the Terry Porter basketball camp sessions for all summer.

The player pictures on the poster are Philipp Hartwich and D'Marques Tyson. So I guess the futures of all the current players is still open.
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Post by Stonehouse on Tue Mar 12, 2019 6:14 pm

up7587 wrote:The player pictures on the poster are Philipp Hartwich and D'Marques Tyson.  So I guess the futures of all the current players is still open.

I'm rusty on compliance rules, but I believe you cannot use current players on promotional items for revenue-generating things like camps or workshops. So I wouldn't read too much into that.
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default Re: Will Porter be gone if they run the table in conference?

Post by wrv on Fri Mar 15, 2019 8:52 am

Washington State fired Ernie Kent yesterday after lackluster performance by the team and some player transfers. They also paid him a cool 4.2 million on the remainder of his contract. By the way, the Cougars average only a little more than 2,300 for their home games; I suspect that is a low for PAC 12 attendance.

The speed with which the Cougs fired their men's basketball coach is perhaps matched only by our willingness to rapidly terminate our women's coach, Cheryl Sorenson, who clearly outperformed Porter and staff this year without equivalent resources.

http://sports.mynorthwest.com/615028/wsu-fires-mens-basketball-coach-ernie-kent-after-5-seasons/

It does not appear that the Pilots will terminate Porter, for reasons already cited.

We can only hope for the best and that when the administration intones their public relations inspired mantra, that "it is not all the coach's fault," it does not mask an inability to bring winning basketball to the Bluff by this staff.

Leykam has seemingly made good hiring choices in Men's and Women's scccer, baseball and volleyball. Let us hope that he had some discretion in deciding to retain Porter.


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Post by JimmAlacki on Fri Mar 15, 2019 12:45 pm

It does not appear that the Pilots will terminate Porter, for reasons already cited.

We can only hope for the best and that when the administration intones their public relations inspired mantra, that "it is not all the coach's fault," it does not mask an inability to bring winning basketball to the Bluff by this staff.

Leykam has seemingly made good hiring choices in Men's and Women's scccer, baseball and volleyball. Let us hope that he had some discretion in deciding to retain Porter.

[/quote]

I am sure there will be a release soon. The staff and administration are committed to success and "we are convinced that things will improve immediately".

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Post by wrv on Sat Mar 16, 2019 2:53 pm

In related news, another program has let go a storied coach after 3 years of below standard performance by the team. Mike Dunleavey was fired by Tulane.

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Post by JimmAlacki on Sat Mar 16, 2019 3:12 pm

wrv wrote:In related news, another program has let go a storied coach after 3 years of below standard performance by the team. Mike Dunleavey was fired by Tulane.

The UP administration is at a disadvantage as they have no knowledge or experience in dealing with standard performances. A below standard performance is normal and expected

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Post by Dean Murdoch on Sat Mar 16, 2019 5:13 pm

JimmAlacki wrote:The UP administration is at a disadvantage as they have no knowledge or experience in dealing with standard performances. A below standard performance is normal and expected

You've been posting here for a month now and have clearly established your unhappiness with the administration.

You admitted yourself in one of your first posts that your frustration is based on attending Providence, which has a similar enrollment to UP but a much stronger tradition of success in hoops. You laud the immediate success brought by the hiring of Rick Pitino, and can't understand why UP can't make a similar "splash hire" to fix things here. Well guess what, Providence had eight NCAA tourney appearances in two-plus decades, including a Final Four, before hiring Pitino. That previous success is PRECISELY what put them in a position to have a chance at hiring that guy. (Not to mention, Pitino already had racked up NCAA violations while at Hawaii before he was at Providence, and of course would eventually be fired at Louisville for paying recruits - I doubt Leykam touches anyone with a black mark on his record)

You're on here consistently griping about coaching and administration and I get it. 5-25 this year, 7-22 last year, nobody's happy. But what are your own solutions to the issues? You want Porter fired, then what? What specific coach would you want brought in to replace him, and what would make this coach any more successful than his predecessors? I see you want grad transfers to come to UP? There's transfer lists out there, which specific players would be a good fit position-wise and would want to come play for the Pilots? You want a harder schedule? All right, I don't get why a 5-25 team needs a more difficult schedule but to each his own - now which teams are you going to get on the schedule? And now that the WCC has decreed more home non-conference games than away, you can't just go around giving 2-for-1 or 3-for-1 series out to a bunch of P12 or upper-tier MWC schools. Oh and speaking of the WCC they now must approve all road "buy" games, so the one-off you set up at Washington might not even be allowed if it's determined that it's not in the best interests of the conference.

It's very easy to pick out the problems. Not so easy to pick out solutions for this Pilots program.
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Post by JimmAlacki on Sat Mar 16, 2019 7:25 pm

Dean Murdoch wrote:
JimmAlacki wrote:The UP administration is at a disadvantage as they have no knowledge or experience in dealing with standard performances. A below standard performance is normal and expected

You've been posting here for a month now and have clearly established your unhappiness with the administration.

You admitted yourself in one of your first posts that your frustration is based on attending Providence, which has a similar enrollment to UP but a much stronger tradition of success in hoops. You laud the immediate success brought by the hiring of Rick Pitino, and can't understand why UP can't make a similar "splash hire" to fix things here. Well guess what, Providence had eight NCAA tourney appearances in two-plus decades, including a Final Four, before hiring Pitino. That previous success is PRECISELY what put them in a position to have a chance at hiring that guy. (Not to mention, Pitino already had racked up NCAA violations while at Hawaii before he was at Providence, and of course would eventually be fired at Louisville for paying recruits - I doubt Leykam touches anyone with a black mark on his record)

You're on here consistently griping about coaching and administration and I get it. 5-25 this year, 7-22 last year, nobody's happy. But what are your own solutions to the issues? You want Porter fired, then what? What specific coach would you want brought in to replace him, and what would make this coach any more successful than his predecessors? I see you want grad transfers to come to UP? There's transfer lists out there, which specific players would be a good fit position-wise and would want to come play for the Pilots? You want a harder schedule? All right, I don't get why a 5-25 team needs a more difficult schedule but to each his own - now which teams are you going to get on the schedule? And now that the WCC has decreed more home non-conference games than away, you can't just go around giving 2-for-1 or 3-for-1 series out to a bunch of P12 or upper-tier MWC schools. Oh and speaking of the WCC they now must approve all road "buy" games, so the one-off you set up at Washington might not even be allowed if it's determined that it's not in the best interests of the conference.

It's very easy to pick out the problems. Not so easy to pick out solutions for this Pilots program.

I was commenting that UP has no history nor experience in developing a program. You obviously disagree.

Pitino was not a splash hire. After leaving Hawaii where he was the interim head coach for 6 whopping games after the head coach was fired, he was then an assistant at Syracuse, then the head coach at a weak D1 team Boston University and was then an assistant coach with the Knicks. Pitino was a relative unknown. There is absolutely no way that Pitino would ever come or UP be interested, nice try suggesting I was advocating for it. Providence got hurt when Pitino had too much success too quickly and the college president was clueless in knowing how to have a successful program.

Providence has benefited from a history, and ex-coaches that were able to suggest and talk to potential new coaches. Gavitt was instrumental in getting Pitino, Rick Barnes and Pete Gillen in the years following. Providence has had assistant coaches like Herb Sendek, Stu Jackson, Fran Fraschilla, Jeff Van Gundy and players like Jim Larranaga, Lenny Wilkens, Billy Donovan and John Thompson who developed into coaches.

It appears that you are satisfied with the state of UP basketball. I am a college basketball fan. I want UP to be successful.
But I am not going to continue to spend almost $1000 a year on tickets

I suggested grad transfers for several reasons. They are immediately eligible and experienced, if they don't work out they are gone after that year. Good luck finding a juco or first year player now who can contribute. The quality ones are gone

You obviously are satisfied with a weak schedule. If I spend money for season tickets I don't want to watch USC Upstate, Lewis and Clark, Multnomah etc. UP probably can't improve the schedule because of their weak past.








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Post by Dean Murdoch on Sat Mar 16, 2019 8:15 pm

@JimmAlacki wrote:Pitino was not a splash hire.

Pitino was 91-51 at Boston University and led them to the NCAA tournament in his last year with the Terriers. He established success at the D1 level with BU, and after two years in the NBA went to a Providence program that had established success at the D1 level.

Perhaps it wasn't a "splash hire" for Providence, but if the Pilots got someone with the same credentials Pitino had when he went to the Friars we'd be throwing a party in here and for good reason.

@JimmAlacki wrote:My alma mater had a coach take over a program that was 11-20 the year before. Within two years, he had them in the Final 4. You need a coaching staff that will maximize their talent and ability.

This is from one of your first posts on here. I take it to mean that you think the Pilots are just one coach away from turning this ship around, and all it will take here is our own Pitino-type coach (by the looks of your most recent post, I may have to assist you by explicitly stating that I'm not suggesting you think the Pilots should actually hire Rick Pitino, the now 66-year-old head coach of Panathinaikos).

If that's the case, I share your hope that this coach will come to UP at some point soon. But who's going to be that guy?

@JimmAlacki wrote:It appears that you are satisfied with the state of UP basketball. I am a college basketball fan. I want UP to be successful. But I am not going to continue to spend almost $1000 a year on tickets. I suggested grad transfers for several reasons. They are immediately eligible and experienced, if they don't work out they are gone after that year. Good luck finding a juco or first year player now who can contribute. The quality ones are gone. You obviously are satisfied with a weak schedule. If I spend money for season tickets I don't want to watch USC Upstate, Lewis and Clark, Multnomah etc. UP probably can't improve the schedule because of their weak past.

More "you are satisfied" misdirection when, again, you have no solutions of substance to offer. No suggestions of coaches, no specific grad transfers to target, no scheduling strategies. Zero.

I'm reminded of a tweet from our old friend Coach Reveno - "complaining without offering a solution is, well...just whining." Certainly seems applicable here.
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Post by PilotNut on Wed Mar 20, 2019 9:57 am

wrv wrote:We can only hope for the best and that when the administration intones their public relations inspired mantra, that "it is not all the coach's fault," it does not mask an inability to bring winning basketball to the Bluff by this staff.

I have been thinking about this... I was not in the room when this was said, but I am trying to figure out who/what else they are implying is to share in the blame. University Administration? Assistant Coaches? Athletic Department? Fans? Players? Lack of desirable beer selection at games? Geezer's t-shirt stealing antics?
confused

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Post by bullwinkle on Wed Mar 20, 2019 11:41 am

PilotNut wrote:
wrv wrote:We can only hope for the best and that when the administration intones their public relations inspired mantra, that "it is not all the coach's fault," it does not mask an inability to bring winning basketball to the Bluff by this staff.

I have been thinking about this...  I was not in the room when this was said, but I am trying to figure out who/what else they are implying is to share in the blame.  University Administration?  Assistant Coaches?  Athletic Department? Fans?  Players?  Lack of desirable beer selection at games?  Geezer's t-shirt stealing antics?  
confused

My recollection is a bit mixed because there was a follow-up question that Leykam answered as well and added to the list.  Between the two, he talked about five or six things, and said he has some of the responsibility.  What I recall of his list was shortcomings in scheduling and player conditioning, and in the follow-up, he talked about being behind other WCC schools in international recruitment and grad transfers (because we don't have many programs offering advanced degrees).  I'm sure there were a couple other things.   I thought it was very diplomatic, but a lot like saying it's not just smoking two packs a day that created your lung cancer, there's also air pollution and genetics.

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Post by DoubleDipper on Wed Mar 20, 2019 12:23 pm

bullwinkle wrote:  I'm sure there were a couple other things.  
Scott was reluctant to mention it because it might reflect poorly upon the student-athletes themselves, and very few of us are willing to criticize a college kid, but he said "player development" was lacking.

Personally, I put player development directly on the coaches who recruit the student-athlete and are then responsible for developing the player once he arrives on campus.

Among the reasons a kid goes to college is for guidance and development provided by professors....it's the same with college athletics.
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Post by PilotNut on Wed Mar 20, 2019 12:36 pm

I agree--player development is square on the coaches' shoulders. The coaches are either not signing players that they are able to connect with and/or motivate, they are not signing players with sufficient talent to develop, or they do not maintain the skills to develop/motivate student athletes. All of these would fall under the coaching category, in my opinion.

With that being said--what is being done to address it? That is square on the Head Coach and Athletic Department.

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Post by Geezaldinho on Wed Mar 20, 2019 3:10 pm

Bullwinkle wrote:(because we don't have many programs offering advanced degrees).

What about the Pamplin school of business’ Masters in craft brew business strategies? It would solve a couple/three of the problems in the Chiles center.

Pnut wrote:Geezer's t-shirt stealing antics?

Most competitive thing that happened in the building this year.
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Post by blacksheep on Wed Mar 20, 2019 3:14 pm

Geezaldinho wrote:

Most competitive thing that happened in the building this year.

Sure was more competitive than the paper airplane I made this year. Embarassed
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Post by Geezaldinho on Wed Mar 20, 2019 8:23 pm

blacksheep wrote:

Sure was more competitive than the paper airplane I made this year.  Embarassed

Ain’t naming no names, but I know someone who folded a plane filled out by a guy near him, threw it on the floor and won.

The the guy who filled it out took someone else to Hawai’i.
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Post by DoubleDipper on Wed Mar 20, 2019 9:26 pm

PilotNut wrote:I agree--player development is square on the coaches' shoulders. 
And it's not just the four recognizable coaches, but also the coaches behind the scenes who develop the student-athlete's whole-person, intelligently, professionally, emotionally and physically...so they can attain their maximum potential.

UP must hire and retain the best academic coaches, training room coaches, sports performance coaches, physical therapy coaches, behavioral science coaches, and the "coaches" who record and edit the game and practice tapes for the players and coaches to improve their performances.

No, UP is not a ACC school or team, but when Rev arrived at Georgia Tech, one of the first things he noticed was the "support staff" and "support facilities," including the academic development facilities, were at a "whole different level" compared to UP and other WCC schools.
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Post by FloridaPilot on Thu Mar 21, 2019 6:45 am

Bullwinkle wrote:(because we don't have many programs offering advanced degrees).

I know of a program that would be perfect for UP, but alas...
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Post by DoubleDipper on Fri Mar 22, 2019 10:49 am

The school UP is vying with for the longest losing streak in the country just fired their coach...

Bryce Drew was fired after Vanderbilt went 9-23 overall with an active 20-game losing streak, the longest in program history. Its 0-19 conference record made the Commodores the SEC’s first winless team in league play in 65 years.

Despite his record, the firing of Drew, who has/had three years left on his six-year contract, came as a surprise to most because they are such a young team....new AD making his mark, perhaps.
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Post by Geezaldinho on Fri Mar 22, 2019 1:32 pm

DoubleDipper wrote:

Despite his record, the firing of Drew, who has/had three years left on his six-year contract, came as a surprise to most because they are such a young team....new AD making his mark, perhaps.

The new AD making his mark card has already been played here.

Time to play the experienced AD learns from past mistakes card.
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Post by DoubleDipper on Mon Mar 25, 2019 9:21 am

It's probably not a surprise that former LMU player, Wyking Jones, is out as Cal's coach after just two seasons in which his team won eight games each season.  What is a little surprising is that Jones was reportedly assured he would return next season until the Cal AD met with the players and apparently changed his mind.

What the AD said after Jones' dismissal is similar to what Pilots fans have been saying: "We need somebody who is going to teach our young men and help them grow."

Jones still has/had three years left on his contract that reportedly pays $1 million per year...

Who pays-off these contracts of Johnson at Alabama and Jones at Cal...the state taxpayers, or "boosters?"
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Post by Geezaldinho on Mon Mar 25, 2019 11:06 am

Jones is/was a state employee. Terms of his contract and termination criteria were obtained under the freedom of information act.

Details here: https://cal.rivals.com/news/breakdown-of-wyking-jones-contract

I suppose boosters may pay for the buyout, but the State is responsible for the contract. Maybe the AD changing his mind had to do with deep pockets ponying up.

For termination without cause, he gets100% of salary and “talent fee” whatever that is.

How much the actually payout is depends on his future employment for the rest of the contract duration.
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Post by bullwinkle on Tue Mar 26, 2019 2:05 am

Geezaldinho wrote:Jones is/was a state employee. Terms of his contract and termination criteria were obtained under the freedom of information act.

Details here: https://cal.rivals.com/news/breakdown-of-wyking-jones-contract

I suppose boosters may pay for the buyout, but the State is responsible for the contract. Maybe the AD changing his mind had to do with deep pockets ponying up.

For termination without cause, he gets100% of salary and “talent fee” whatever that is.

How much the actually payout is depends on his future employment for the rest of the contract duration.

What I found most interesting about the terms of his contract was that it was littered with opportunities for bonus pay, but the only out for the university to terminate him without incurring a financial obligation was misconduct or violation of rules.  Now, at least Jones had prior college coaching experience, but given the available research on the generally abysmal performance of prior NBA players taking on head coaching jobs in college (and given the intelligence and experience of our AD), why wouldn't a UP contract with Terry Porter add a short sentence, after the litterbox of bonus opportunities, to allow us the opportunity to diplomatically or summarily fire the man if he begins competing for new levels of underachievement in the category of abysmal performance?

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