Will Porter be gone if they run the table in conference?

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Post by NoPoNeighbor on Sun Feb 03, 2019 3:09 pm

dholcombe wrote:I checked middle of last week and it looks like Jazz is getting almost 30 minutes a game at Nevada. He'd be a solid contributor if he were still around. The question is...which current player would we not have recruited if he stayed? I suspect the answer to that will always remain a mystery.
That would be Marcus Shaver, who was a very late signee in the spring of 2017, after Jazz and others announced that they were leaving. JoJo Walker was already signed to an LOI at that point, and Shaver was recruited as an additional guard after Johnson transferred.

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Post by NoPoNeighbor on Tue Feb 05, 2019 2:50 pm

BYU radio announcer points out that Pilots are 7-43 in their last 50 WCC games.
https://twitter.com/gregwrubell/status/1092906499515379712

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Post by Dean Murdoch on Thu Feb 07, 2019 3:13 pm

I have my “8-43” reply tweet set to autosend at 9:59 PM, don’t let me down Pilots!
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Post by Shadrach on Thu Feb 07, 2019 3:56 pm

Atta Boy Dean !!

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Post by up7587 on Thu Feb 07, 2019 5:46 pm

removed


Last edited by up7587 on Thu Feb 07, 2019 5:49 pm; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : moved to game thread)
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Post by Dean Murdoch on Thu Feb 07, 2019 9:16 pm

“Hello, customer support? How do I delete a scheduled tweet?”
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Post by Geezaldinho on Thu Feb 07, 2019 9:23 pm

I feel like one of those guys who goes to an auto race for the crashes.
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Post by bobtcat2 on Thu Feb 07, 2019 9:50 pm

This is it folks. There is 100% chance Porter is gone after this year. 100%. I doubt they'll make the move early, probably wait until after the WCC tourney- or maybe he resigns- but this is incredibly painful for everyone.

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Post by NoPoNeighbor on Thu Feb 07, 2019 11:37 pm

My thoughts here are not exclusive to the Pilots' current situation, but certainly might apply.

In general, I think there are certain circumstances in which it would make sense to fire a coach mid-season:

- If the university has already decided mid-season that the coach will be fired, AND
- There are players on the roster that you hope to retain under a new coach, and/or
- There are committed/signed recruits who you hope will still come to the school, and/or
- There is a good replacement candidate on the current coaching staff

If some of these circumstances are met, I think there should be serious consideration given to a mid-season change. Here's why:

- It provides a chance for a promising assistant coach to prove himself as head coach without having to commit to him long term. It's a free trial run, or on-the-job interview.
- If the season is already lost, this gives a chance for a re-set. An opportunity to salvage something positive out of the season.
- A positive end to the season could give the current players a better feeling about the program heading into the off-season, which might help in retaining more of them. Same goes for the signed recruits. With a post-season firing most of the best players could leave without giving the new coach a chance.
- If a current assistant is promoted to interim head coach, and then hired for the job, it maintains continuity with the current roster and recruits. This hopefully prevents the complete rebuild dynamic that often happens with a coaching change, usually lasting 2-3 years.

I thought what Pepperdine did last season was really weird. They fired Marty Wilson at some point during the conference schedule, but kept him around to coach the rest of the season. That approach doesn't seem to provide the same potential benefits that I outlined above. If UP were already decided that Porter is done, I'd like to see them make the move now and give Johnson or Cantu a chance to build some positive momentum heading into the off-season. Can't hurt, might help.

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Post by bullwinkle on Fri Feb 08, 2019 2:17 am

Well said, NoPo.  I agree whole-heartedly.  Leykam doesn't even have to "fire" him.  Terry could write a letter about his high hopes and enthusiasm for the job when he started, but sometimes that just isn't enough. We all learn from our mistakes.  Tell us it's time for him to move on, but finish with how much faith he has in the coaches that remain, the players, and the university.  He exits gracefully, we all admire him, and we approach the remaining games with curiosity and enthusiasm. Put an end to the dread we all have with each game.

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Post by bobtcat2 on Fri Feb 08, 2019 4:22 pm

Yeah. Time for a change. Sometimes great players don't make great coaches, maybe it's just not a good fit but the time has come. Last night was dreadful.

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Post by JimmAlacki on Fri Feb 08, 2019 11:07 pm

Why would UP even consider hiring one of the assistants? Hiring one of these assistants would confirm the fact that UP has no intention of trying to field a D1 program.

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Post by PilotNut on Sat Feb 09, 2019 12:16 am

JimmAlacki wrote:Why would UP even consider hiring one of the assistants? Hiring one of these assistants would confirm the fact that UP has no intention of trying to field a D1 program.

Agreed. The WCC has moved beyond this. We need a head coach with D-I experience.

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Post by wrv on Sat Feb 09, 2019 9:09 am

The supposition that Porter is gone appears certain among many posters. Apparently No One Believes that the team could perform this badly and retain its coach. But then there are the constraints of Portland's budget meeting the ego of the coach, together with his sense of filial duty. The University cannot afford to buy out Porter's contract, and Porter May resist leaving until he can right the ship and also so that he can stay while his son continues to play here.

One sage has already suggested that Porter may stay until both sons finish at Portland. I am not saying that Porter will be retained, but isn't it possible that he will stay on?
To paraphrase Rumsfeld, the absence of evidence is not evidence.
If Mark Twain's premature rumors of death can be greatly exaggerated, why not the rumors of Porter's departure being equally exaggerated?

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Post by StudentPilot on Sat Feb 09, 2019 10:17 am

PilotNut wrote:
JimmAlacki wrote:Why would UP even consider hiring one of the assistants? Hiring one of these assistants would confirm the fact that UP has no intention of trying to field a D1 program.
Agreed.  The WCC has moved beyond this.  We need a head coach with D-I experience.  
scratch There's reportedly about 47 years of D1 experience among UP's assistants:

Cantu: 19 years
Geving: 15 years
Johnson: 13 years

I have no idea how that compares with the rest of the WCC, but I'm guessing pretty favorably....
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Post by bobtcat2 on Sat Feb 09, 2019 11:02 am

wrv wrote:The supposition that Porter is gone appears certain among many posters. Apparently No One Believes that the team could perform this badly and retain its coach. But then there are the constraints of Portland's budget meeting the ego of the coach, together with his sense of filial duty. The University cannot afford to buy out Porter's contract, and Porter May resist leaving until he can right the ship and also so that he can stay while his son continues to play here.

One sage has already suggested that Porter may stay until both sons finish at Portland. I am not saying that Porter will be retained, but isn't it possible that he will stay on?
To paraphrase Rumsfeld, the absence of evidence is not evidence.
If Mark Twain's premature rumors of death can be greatly exaggerated, why not the rumors of Porter's departure being equally exaggerated?
I don't think they're going to need to fire him because I expect him to resign.

The fact is regardless of what you think the talent level is (personally based on watching a lot of WCC ball I think they're about on a par with Santa Clara, LMU and Pacific in talent and well below the other 6 teams), the players have gotten worse as time has gone on. You can look at the stats or just watch the guys.
With Shaver apparently gone for next season, this team will be a lock to go winless in conference and could win only 2 or 3 D1 games even against the soft schedule.

There's no way he'll be coaching the team next season.

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Post by dholcombe on Sat Feb 09, 2019 1:01 pm

Lets say we don't buy out his contract and he doesn't resign...Can we demote him to assistant and make an assistant head coach? No additional money spent...

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Post by pilotram on Sat Feb 09, 2019 1:44 pm

PilotNut wrote: We need a head coach with D-I experience.  
Let's hope that the administration and AD have finally learned this very important lesson.
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Post by PilotNut on Sat Feb 09, 2019 2:20 pm

Studentpilot wrote: scratch There's reportedly about 47 years of D1 experience among UP's assistants:

Cantu: 19 years
Geving: 15 years
Johnson: 13 years

I have no idea how that compares with the rest of the WCC, but I'm guessing pretty favorably....

I should have clarified D-I head coaching experience. Look at other recent WCC hires: Romar, Sendek, Smith... I am not saying it is an absolute, but we need to recognize that the WCC is moving up and making higher profile hires. We need to keep up and not just default to the familiar. I think a fresh start, game-changer type hire would be a good thing.

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Post by NoPoNeighbor on Sat Feb 09, 2019 2:34 pm

PilotNut wrote:I think a fresh start, game-changer type hire would be a good thing.
That's what I was hoping Porter would provide. We knew he needed D-I experience in his assistants, and UP went out and got it. I just don't think there is a silver bullet in terms of the background and profile of who will be a successful head coach.

There are good examples to be found nationwide of successful coaches who have come to their jobs from all kinds of backgrounds. Same is true within the WCC. Few didn't have any D-I head coaching experience.

How much would it take to get Spoelstra?

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Post by up7587 on Sat Feb 09, 2019 2:49 pm

Cantu was a longtime assistant at USC, and was interim head coach in 2012-13 season when Kevin O'Neill (another NBA head coach) was fired in January. They were 7-8 in his time. USC then hired Andy Enfield, who was coming off big dance upsets at Florida Atlantic.

Geving, filling in this year, has eight years head coaching experience at PSU, where he was 112-133. Before that he was asst. head coach four years under Ken Bone.

Ben Johnson was an assistant coach as WSU for ten seasons, coaching under Dick Bennett and two other head coaches.
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Post by Dean Murdoch on Sat Feb 09, 2019 3:06 pm

It's silly to simply dismiss this group of assistants as HC candidates merely because they're assistants (unless you happen to be in the room - and if you're in the room, I hope you're not posting on this board).

PilotNut: Kyle Smith was an incredible hire for USF. Herb Sendek has been "okay" for Santa Clara - obviously better results than here, but they're still about #200 in the country three years into his tenure. The standard here has been set higher than that  or else Coach Rev would still be at UP.

There's no formula that works as a blanket solution in the WCC or anywhere else in college basketball. And there's no formula that has worked at Portland, EVER, with the exception of three good years under a coach the Pilots got from a Pac-10 school.

At this point the Pilots are, in every sense of it, San Jose State. Right down to the last year both teams made the tournament. I have no idea what the solution is, but it sure doesn't look like this is it.
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Post by bobtcat2 on Sat Feb 09, 2019 3:46 pm

dholcombe wrote:Lets say we don't buy out his contract and he doesn't resign...Can we demote him to assistant and make an assistant head coach? No additional money spent...

I don't think that would be permitted by his contract, but maybe they could encourage him to have the assistants handle more of the X's and O's. I still expect he'll announce his resignation following the WCC tourney, unless he's fired during the season, which is unlikely to say the least.

Coaching hires are tricky, somebody mentioned Enfield at USC, did anyone think this program would be this bad after what he did at FGCU?

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Post by JimmAlacki on Sat Feb 09, 2019 8:50 pm

UP needs coaches who can recruit. This group has shown they can't.

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Post by bullwinkle on Sat Feb 09, 2019 11:51 pm

JimmAlacki, I'm fascinated by your posts.  You kinda remind me of somebody I used to work with. This person didn't have to work, but I think she stayed just because she loved having something to complain about.  You've said our players don't have enough talent to be at this level, the coach is awful, the assistant coaches can't recruit and are unworthy of consideration for the head coaching job, and the administration ain't gonna do anything to fix it any of it anyway.   All that just in 9 posts!   You're definitely on a roll here.  

I sort of understand how get there though.   Something is obviously wrong - it's just hard to figure how what, so you start throwing out all the options that occur to you.  And, I have to say I do my own share of complaining here.  UP fans need an outlet for our frustration.  Where I part with you is that I'm only pointing one finger and it's at the coach.  He is the leader here.  He sets the tone and calls all the shots.  I think we have a lot of talent on this team, but he doesn't know how to use it.  You could tell LMU was going to win tonight, not because they had better players, but just watching them - their offense was in constant motion, they did a lot of substitutions to keep it fresh, and they played tough defense.  We've got this slow-down, half-court offense that is pretty predictable, and we have few substitutions.  And we've got no confidence anymore.  We have talented assistant coaches with a lot of years experience, but they're not in charge.  I also think our administration has shown a commitment to change and improvement.  Look at what he's done in nearly every other sport at UP.   This was just a gamble that didn't pay off.   While I think most of us would love to see a gracious exit for Terry tomorrow by 10 am, that's pretty unlikely.  If money is the issue, I'd rather have Terry gone and be down one coach for the next two years or whenever Porter's contract ends than continue this.  

You may be right when you say everything is awful, but I'd rather take an incremental approach and start with a new coach.

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