The Rant You All Requested

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Re: The Rant You All Requested

Post by adoptedzag on Wed Mar 07, 2018 7:05 pm

lomiton wrote:  As a money giving Bulldog alum told me, if GU can get the money situation straightened out they couldn't ask for a better league situation than they already have right now (WCC).  Bottom line is no real reason for Gonzaga to leave unless TV shows up with bags full of money to do it.

That money giving alum is flat out wrong. The last thing we want to do is take money away from the institutions in the league, therefor putting them in an even worse financial situation to improve their programs. Why in the hell would we do that? To lower our national profile? c'mon

NoPoNeighbor wrote:On the ESPN broadcast of tonight's WCC Championship Game, the announcers were discussing the possibility that Gonzaga (and BYU) could leave the WCC. One of the announcers quoted GU's AD as having told him that GU would make the move that was "the best thing for our brand." I'm glad that the Pilots are a college basketball team, representing a university, rather than a brand.
Don't kid yourself. The university is a brand, or else they wouldn't have advertising. That brand leads to enrollment which leads to $$$. If they weren't a brand, why would they put a billboard up in Portland when they were the #1 3pt shooting team in the country? You're kidding yourself if you think otherwise.

We're discovering as a society that information, and more importantly the control of that information is paramount. To establish and cultivate a brand brings revenue. From cell phone providers to schools. Everything is a profit center; especially students. Student loans cannot be defaulted on. Students are a guaranteed revenue stream for *years* and schools are doing what they can to get butts in seats just like every other business out there.

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Re: The Rant You All Requested

Post by up7587 on Thu Mar 08, 2018 1:58 pm

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Re: The Rant You All Requested

Post by Stonehouse on Thu Mar 08, 2018 2:25 pm

adoptedzag wrote:Everything is a profit center; especially students.  Student loans cannot be defaulted on.  Students are a guaranteed revenue stream for *years* and schools are doing what they can to get butts in seats just like every other business out there.

*This* is what I was talking about when I asked if you had gone to Gonzaga or not. I can guarantee you that Gonzaga - nor Portland, nor any other WCC shcool - looks at its students as nothing but profit centers.

Sure, there are some schools (typically for-profit colleges and really low-tier private schools) that will basically admit anyone with the hope of cashing a federal loan check and showing little concern about the current or future well-being of that student.

Schools like Gonzaga and Portland aren't simply looking to maximize enrollment (if they were, both schools would be a lot larger - just look at their acceptance rates and application numbers). Believe it or not, colleges really do care about educating students and providing them with a good four years of learning, growth, and opportunity. Schools like Gonzaga and Portland spend millions of dollars a year on financial aid packages, and often go out of their way to assist first-generation colleges students and students that qualify for Pell Grants, even if it is bad for the "bottom line."

I understand the point you are trying to make that colleges are/have brands, but don't come in here and denigrate the educational missions of WCC schools. The type of profiteering you are talking about does exist at some schools - and of course colleges that are tuition-dependent have to be cognizant of how much money is coming in from their student body - but to boldly proclaim that colleges are simply "profit centers" is total baloney.
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Re: The Rant You All Requested

Post by adoptedzag on Thu Mar 08, 2018 3:13 pm

Stonehouse wrote:
adoptedzag wrote:Everything is a profit center; especially students.  Student loans cannot be defaulted on.  Students are a guaranteed revenue stream for *years* and schools are doing what they can to get butts in seats just like every other business out there.

*This* is what I was talking about when I asked if you had gone to Gonzaga or not. I can guarantee you that Gonzaga - nor Portland, nor any other WCC shcool - looks at its students as nothing but profit centers.

Sure, there are some schools (typically for-profit colleges and really low-tier private schools) that will basically admit anyone with the hope of cashing a federal loan check and showing little concern about the current or future well-being of that student.

Schools like Gonzaga and Portland aren't simply looking to maximize enrollment (if they were, both schools would be a lot larger - just look at their acceptance rates and application numbers). Believe it or not, colleges really do care about educating students and providing them with a good four years of learning, growth, and opportunity. Schools like Gonzaga and Portland spend millions of dollars a year on financial aid packages, and often go out of their way to assist first-generation colleges students and students that qualify for Pell Grants, even if it is bad for the "bottom line."

I understand the point you are trying to make that colleges are/have brands, but don't come in here and denigrate the educational missions of WCC schools. The type of profiteering you are talking about does exist at some schools - and of course colleges that are tuition-dependent have to be cognizant of how much money is coming in from their student body - but to boldly proclaim that colleges are simply "profit centers" is total baloney.

You can have profit centers and still do good works. They are not mutually exclusive. It's a lot easier to do those good works when you have guaranteed income from students. There isn't an institution that would survive without money, then how do they do those good works? I'm not saying that schools value profit over students, I'm saying that money is important to the schools.

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Re: The Rant You All Requested

Post by up7587 on Thu Mar 08, 2018 3:30 pm

I don't know, Stonehouse. Based on my observations in Vegas, GU sells a LOT of t-shirts.
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Re: The Rant You All Requested

Post by Stonehouse on Thu Mar 08, 2018 4:10 pm

adoptedzag wrote:I'm not saying that schools value profit over students, I'm saying that money is important to the schools.

Thanks for the ground-breaking observation.
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Re: The Rant You All Requested

Post by Stonehouse on Thu Mar 08, 2018 4:11 pm

up7587 wrote:I don't know, Stonehouse.  Based on my observations in Vegas, GU sells a LOT of t-shirts.

Ha ha, I'm sure they do. And more power to them.

But despite their basketball fans being obnoxious, I know there are still a lot of really good people at that college. Even if they are Jesuits. Wink
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Re: The Rant You All Requested

Post by Geezaldinho on Thu Mar 08, 2018 5:50 pm


Gonzaga is starting a football team?
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Re: The Rant You All Requested

Post by up7587 on Thu Mar 08, 2018 6:45 pm

No, that's not what the article says.
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Re: The Rant You All Requested

Post by Geezaldinho on Thu Mar 08, 2018 8:36 pm

Mountain West is a football conference.
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Re: The Rant You All Requested

Post by lomiton on Fri Mar 09, 2018 9:59 am

adoptedzag wrote:
lomiton wrote:
As a money giving Bulldog alum told me, if GU can get the money situation straightened out they couldn't ask for a better league situation than they already have right now (WCC).  Bottom line is no real reason for Gonzaga to leave unless TV shows up with bags full of money to do it.

adaptedzag wrote:
That money giving alum is flat out wrong.  The last thing we want to do is take money away from the institutions in the league, therefor putting them in an even worse financial situation to improve their programs.  Why in the hell would we do that? To lower our national profile? c'mon


Adopt-a-Zag, I don't know if my "money giving Bulldog alum" really knows what's going on but do you really think that Gonzaga athletic department really has (or even had) any desire to subsidize the WCC?  While there are probably some social conscience Jesuits somewhere that buy into that philosophy my guess they aren't hammering pitchers at Jack and Dan's...the WCC has been tailor made for GU as an easy "auto-bid" into the NCAA tournament. Coach Few can bluster he really wants a more competitive WCC (and maybe he really wants that) but my guess is he sure as heck hasn't wanted to pay for it and doesn't want to pay for it.  Bottom line Comrade Zag, you really need to re-think this through.

As per usual, the SD Union Trib is all over this (it was the basis of the SB Nation article referenced above): http://www.sandiegouniontribune.com/sports/aztecs/sd-sp-mountain-west-gonzaga-byu-analysis-20180307-story.html

Sounds like lots of moving parts, but again, typically if there is a pot of money at the end of the rainbow everyone will try to get there.  While I would miss the Zags, this has all been worthwhile to watch Zoob Nation (BYU) collectively get the cold sweats as their options could be hanging out in a seriously downgraded WCC or strapping on the knee pads for a visit to Mountain West central with football in hand.

Guess we will find out soon enough...

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Re: The Rant You All Requested

Post by lomiton on Tue Mar 13, 2018 5:26 pm

Add from the Deseret News: https://www.deseretnews.com/article/865696817/Rose-BYU-can-survive-without-Gonzaga-in-the-WCC-but-adjustments-will-need-to-be-made.html

Nothing like sending out the ol' ball coach to claim everything will be OK while the bullets whiz around him...

Unless you want a headache don't waste your time reading the article comments - Cougar fan takes on the Utes with their left hand while filling out the slam dunk religious discrimination law suit (for BYU not being picked up by a P5 conference) with their right...

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Re: The Rant You All Requested

Post by SouthCarolinaPilot on Wed Mar 14, 2018 5:56 pm

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Re: The Rant You All Requested

Post by SouthCarolinaPilot on Thu Apr 12, 2018 12:49 pm

Heard about this paper in a presentation today at a conference I am attending. Haven't had the chance to read it yet, but I use RBV for my research. If you have questions, though, I am happy to interpret.

https://quod.lib.umich.edu/j/jsas/6776111.0003.104/--creating-a-sustainable-competitive-advantage-a-resource?rgn=main;view=fulltext
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Re: The Rant You All Requested

Post by up7587 on Thu Apr 12, 2018 2:01 pm

SouthCarolinaPilot wrote:Heard about this paper in a presentation today at a conference I am attending. Haven't had the chance to read it yet, but I use RBV for my research. If you have questions, though, I am happy to interpret.

https://quod.lib.umich.edu/j/jsas/6776111.0003.104/--creating-a-sustainable-competitive-advantage-a-resource?rgn=main;view=fulltext

program’s competitive advantage arose from the socially complex resources of “history, relationships, trust, and organizational culture...developed within the coaching staff”

The article discusses the rareness of GU's achievements.  In other words, good luck when Few retires.
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Re: The Rant You All Requested

Post by Geezaldinho on Thu Apr 12, 2018 4:00 pm

He’s bringing down a million and a half a year with regular raises.


Why on earth would he ever retire?
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