UP vs Michigan

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UP vs Michigan

Post by VillaGorilla on Fri Sep 04, 2015 8:48 pm

Gah, just before halftime and the Pilots concede another. Not that there is a scoreboard to check, but that puts us three in the hole. Yikes.

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Re: UP vs Michigan

Post by Pilot60 on Sat Sep 05, 2015 12:42 am

Having watched the program over the last several years, it is becoming more apparent that major programs are out recruiting us. They are consistently bigger, stronger, faster and more aggressive. Really the first time I noticed it was the Kentucky exhibition match. That was never the case all the way through the last Enyeart years.

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Re: UP vs Michigan

Post by Corrado Kid on Sat Sep 05, 2015 4:03 am

I thought since Marquette beat Michigan that we'd have a chance. The last time UP met UM and Greg Ryan was 3 years ago in the second round. We were a #4 seed and lost, 3-0, also at a neutral site. This 5-0 setback was largest losing margin in Coach Smith's career.

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Re: UP vs Michigan

Post by ehk21 on Sat Sep 05, 2015 4:05 pm

What has happened to the women's soccer program? It really seems to be sagging at the moment. Soccer on the Bluff, both men's and women's, seems to be at its lowest level in over 25 years, since before Clive's era.

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Re: UP vs Michigan

Post by GUPhantom on Sat Sep 05, 2015 4:22 pm

I agree with you Pilot60.  The Rapinoe, Schmidt, Enyeart, Winters and Reed eras were probably the last times I could remember watching domineering Pilot teams.  I've tried to be supportive and encouraging of the teams following.  But, its been disheartening.  There's been some ugly losses, even at home.  Teams used to intimidated by just setting foot on the Merlo pitch.    

Pilot teams used to literally run opponents into the ground with quickness, ball possession and constant offensive pressure.  I remember seeing defenders gassed when the horn sounded.  They'd be holding themselves up on their knees or simply crumple to the ground.  Those days are long gone.  

Return to Glory?  I don't know that the program will ever turn around to that level anymore?  It's been mostly melancholy seasons since for me.... considering celebrations for the 10th anniversary of the last NCAA Championship are probably revving up. The 2005 team was the Greatest Collegiate Women's Team ever assembled.  Their play and chemistry was Phenomenal!!!  Every match....I watched in AWE!  Every match...I saw something Magical!  It isn't fair to compare them to any of the current or following Pilot teams.  But, I confess.  I'm guilty of that!    

Still a Proud Pilot! Very Happy

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Re: UP vs Michigan

Post by Susie Que on Sat Sep 05, 2015 4:41 pm

We haven't been quick or fast in the midfield for years now. Is it difficult to identify a slow high school player or are those the only ones we can recruit? Compounding the problem is the continuing stream of players transferring or quitting. We lose our leading scorer. And we lose a keeper, leaving us with two on the roster and having a freshman in a disastrous debut.

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Re: UP vs Michigan

Post by A_Fan on Sat Sep 05, 2015 9:12 pm

Can't remember a time when there were more than two goalies on the roster. I didn't see the Michigan game, but are you implying that all those goals were the fault of the goalie?

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Re: UP vs Michigan

Post by Susie Que on Sat Sep 05, 2015 10:07 pm

The 5-0 loss was more a collective failure for the team, the coaching staff and those responsible for recruiting, and not solely on the keeper. Also, we had more than 2 keepers in 2011, 2010 and 2006.

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Re: UP vs Michigan

Post by Geezaldinho on Sun Sep 06, 2015 12:39 am

Susie Que wrote:The 5-0 loss was more a collective failure for the team, the coaching staff and those responsible for recruiting, and not solely on the keeper. Also, we had more than 2 keepers in 2011, 2010 and 2006.

Two of those three years the keepers were red shirts, so we had two keepers.

Kelsey transferred and didn't get a waiver from UCLA and Nicole  redshirted for a couple reasons, if I recall. She graduated with a year of eligibility remaining.

And, if I recall, for a couple seasons we tried to redshirt a player but they were forced into service though injury to the starter.

The last time I remember three keepers playing regularly was 2002. One keeper was suspended.  We finished the championship match with Sant Clara with a keeper that had played 15 minutes. She's the winning keeper of record. She played again as third keeper the next year, but with very limited minutes.

The only year I remember three keepers competing for starting minutes was in 2001 when Caruthers, Shea, and Arase all fought for minutes. Caruthers transferred to Texas the next year.

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Re: UP vs Michigan

Post by Susie Que on Sun Sep 06, 2015 1:23 am

If they're listed on the roster, aren't they eligible to play? If they don't play, then they can redshirt. Speaking of Kelsey Davis, have we recruited any keeper on her level since? Friday was the most lopsided loss in 16 years. Geez, aren't you upset knowing this season looks to be even worse than last year?

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Re: UP vs Michigan

Post by Susie Que on Sun Sep 06, 2015 1:39 am

... and Kelsey did get a waiver from UCLA.

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Re: UP vs Michigan

Post by Geezaldinho on Sun Sep 06, 2015 5:47 am

Susie Que wrote:... and Kelsey did get a waiver from UCLA.

No, she did not. It was then against Pac10 policy to grant releases to transfers without a vote of 8 athletic directors in the conference. That didn't happen in her case. Of all the transfers from the pac10 to Portland that I can think of, only one -Tara Koleski  - ever played the year she transferred. There were special circumstances in that case. With goalkeepers, Lauren Arase also had to sit a year.


From an Orgonian article her Senior year:


When Davis visited Portland, she instantly felt at home. From the coaching staff, to the players, to the faculty, to the school's faith-based education, to the cozier feel of a campus of about 3,600 students.

After redshirting one season (required for Division I transfers), Davis began making an instant impact in 2007. In 17 games, she had a 0.49 goals-against average. In 22 games last season, her goals-against average fell to 0.41, tied for fourth all-time at Portland. This season, it is .357, which is third in the nation and second all-time at Portland (behind Angela Harrison's 0.30 in 1998).

http://www.oregonlive.com/pilots/index.ssf/2009/11/pilots_goalkeeper_kelsey_davis.html


Speaking of Angela, she and Cheryl Loveless traded years where only one of them was available. Once to stagger their years and once due to injury. I believe that if the starter got hurt Wynn McIntosh would have gone in the goal.

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Re: UP vs Michigan

Post by OldePilot on Sun Sep 06, 2015 8:58 am

Susie Que: You are playing historical trivia with the wrong person Cool

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Re: UP vs Michigan

Post by Susie Que on Sun Sep 06, 2015 11:31 am

Here's a metaphor: the ship is foundering at sea and headed to the bottom of the ocean. As it is about to sink with all aboard, the main concern isn't past voyages and crew manifests but a call to help: PLEASE SAVE US, ILLINOIS!

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Re: UP vs Michigan

Post by Pilot60 on Wed Sep 09, 2015 3:57 am

It appears the AD will have some tough choices coming soon. Will the AD invest the resources necessary to reestablish a competitive program at the national level and a dominant program in the conference or, will it be content to be a regional mid level program competitive but not dominant in the WCC?

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Re: UP vs Michigan

Post by Corrado Kid on Wed Sep 09, 2015 4:38 pm

Last year our AD, Scott Leykam, had a wait and see attitude, expressing the need to get back this season and said, "[Then] we'll see what we need to do from a personnel standpoint and a program support standpoint." Well, our current 1-4 record is the worst start in UP history. What can he do?

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Re: UP vs Michigan

Post by Susie Que on Wed Sep 09, 2015 6:01 pm

As for program support, it's doubtful the women's soccer budgets at SCU, BYU and Pepperdine are significantly different from UP's.

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Re: UP vs Michigan

Post by Pilot60 on Wed Sep 09, 2015 11:15 pm

Yea WCC budgets are all pretty comparable, that is infact the current dilemma. PAC12 budgets have gotten bigger, Big 10, SEC and the rest of the Big 12 as well, facilities are being improved see UO and WSU as 2 examples. Recruiting budgets now allow for national recruiting. Merlo and the locker rooms are great some of the best but, recruiting needs an bigger investment, sell the winning tradition while kids might still remember the players Sinclair, Schmidt, Rapinoe.

I doubt you can compete in today's women soccer by relying on greater Portland and Washington State. They need to get back in to Cal, NJ and NY have lots of outstanding talent that attend catholic schools create a presence there. Capitalize on being a quality small Catholic school with a winning tradition in a great city.....parents who send their kids to catholic school like that balance. This can be done.

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Re: UP vs Michigan

Post by Geezaldinho on Thu Sep 10, 2015 3:12 am

Pilot60 wrote:

I doubt you can compete in today's women soccer by relying on greater Portland and Washington State. They need to get back in to Cal, NJ and NY have lots of outstanding talent that attend catholic schools create a presence there. Capitalize on being a quality small Catholic school with a winning tradition in a great city.....parents who send their kids to catholic school like that balance. This can be done.

NY-NJ? Not likely. We have no presence there and never have.

We've only had one player from region 1 ( Michelle Scifo) in the history of UP D1  soccer from all of Region 1, and that includes the coastal tidewater states in the East from Maine to Virginia.

We've only ever  had two from Region 2, ( the SE from N. Carolina to Florida) and one of them is here now.

Face it. We have always been a regional program and have done pretty well. Only 3 mid major teams have ever won a championship (4 if you count George Mason, but they have 35K students) we are two of those teams. SCU is the Third.

It's pretty difficult to convince East coast kids to come West away from family when there are so many choices back East.  Way more choices back there.


And there are five CA players on the team now, the same number as local kids. That's been a pretty steady ratio over the years. In 2005 we had one more player from CA than local kids. The main difference I see is we had a 22 team roster then ( 21, really, 1 was hurt) and we have 19 now ( 2 are  recovering from injury)

As to relying on local kids from Oregon and Washington, we always have and always will. we had more local kids on the team in the 2005 championship year than are on the team now. (Eight then, five now) we went to a bunch of final fours in the 90' with rosters heavy with local kids. Proportionally, Oregon is a pretty good D1 recruiting area for its size. Per capita, second to maybe only NJ.

One difference I see is we had three or four Canadians in those years. One in particular made a difference.

There is no doubt recruiting top athletes is harder. There were about 125 teams in D1 in 2002. It was a 32 team tournament.  There are about 330 now. A higher percent  are fully funded now so kids have more choices. Even UCLA, which has had teams that looked invincible, is struggling this year with three losses so far. Getting a consistently good roster is hard for even the Giants.

And I think the roster needs to be a bit bigger. 22-24 players would be ideal. It's pretty tough to get through a season with the 18-19 players we have been carrying the last few  seasons, especially on Sunday's with only one rest day on a weekend series.

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Re: UP vs Michigan

Post by Pilot60 on Thu Sep 10, 2015 12:14 pm

UCLA has seen a drop off since the departure of Jill Ellis. I guess you see more reasons for optimism and no need for major changes. . To have seen 2 NC's, multiple final fours, regular conference championships, annual tournament wins, attracting top 10 national recruiting classes and consistently being ranked in the top 10 is not my definition of a regional program. That defines a national power.

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Re: UP vs Michigan

Post by Geezaldinho on Thu Sep 10, 2015 1:27 pm

UCLA won a championship Jill never did and went to a final four.

Yes, we were a national power, but our strength has alway been regional ( region 4 and British Columbia, to be specific.) we have never been national on the recruiting landscape.

That we have had three recruits in history from the two regions where maybe 70% of players come from kind of proves it. You might argue that part of our current dilemma was going to far afield in recruiting after the championship successes. There wasn't much to build on without a third championship despite getting some great players.

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Re: UP vs Michigan

Post by Pilot60 on Thu Sep 10, 2015 2:52 pm

Not to drag this out but here are the key players on the 05 team

Alexander CA
Sinclair. Can
Rapinoe. CA
Woznuk CA
Huie. CA
Lopez CA
Evans. CA
Sari. Wa
michaelson Or

Also how many final 4 did UCLA make in Jill's time there?

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Re: UP vs Michigan

Post by A_Fan on Thu Sep 10, 2015 3:22 pm

I'd have to agree with Geezer, they really need to carry more players. There are almost always 2-3 players who are either seriously injured or dinged up in some manner that they can't practice or play in a particular week. Most of the teams the Pilots have played so far this year have had 27-30 players. That would seem to be overkill, but 22-24 seems like a reasonable range. Santa Clara currently has 28 players, BYU 24 and Gonzaga 27.

Currently there are 19 players on the Pilots roster. 17 of those are field players. Of the field players one has yet to play this season due to injury, one is apparently a walk on who also has not played yet this season. With the typical 2 players who have week to week injuries, you are left with 14 field players who can practice. It has to be pretty hard to have effective team practices with barely over one starting lineup available. And a lack of practice together leads to what we are seeing on the field this season. Missed passes, a lack of team continuity and poor communication. In my opinion the problem isn't the quality of the players. It is the lack of players.

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Re: UP vs Michigan

Post by Geezaldinho on Thu Sep 10, 2015 3:40 pm

Pilot60 wrote:Not to drag this out but here are the key players on the 05 team

Alexander   CA
Sinclair.      Can
Rapinoe.    CA
Woznuk      CA
Huie.          CA
Lopez         CA
Evans.       CA
Sari.           Wa
michaelson Or

Also how many final 4 did UCLA make in Jill's time there?

I just remember the one she lost in the final in 2005 4-0, the worst defeat this millennium. One can argue they only got to the final by avoiding th #1and #2 teams in the country that year.

I mentioned Canadians, which you didn't. Elsa Hume also did spot duty.


Natalie Budge, third on the team in points, assists, and scoring, and third in assists in the WCC would be disappointed you didn't think her a key player ( Tualatin and FC Portland). I am, anyway. The only Californian with more points is Rapinoe. She also had a game winner against Nebraska in win-or-go-home time.



And Sophomore Kelley Croncrite( Corvalis) , who started 5 games at central defense during which the team only gave up one goal, deserves at least a mention. If I recall, that was when Evans had a concussion, but maybe that was a different year.  They weren't throwaway games either. She played the last 44 minutes in the Penn State game, arguably the best team we played that year. It gave the team some depth that we don't really have in a lot of positions now. They didn't have to be stars, but we wouldn't be anywhere without NW kids.

Even Collen Salisbury ( Medford) , always a spot player, was key to eating two number1 teams in championship runs.

Every team has had key Pacific NW contributors, even without mentioning that arguably the player who put Portland on the map in the first place and matched Mia Hamm's scoring record in 20 fewer games was a local kid. As Clive said, those other players wouldn't have come here if she hadn't.

( see what I did there? Very Happy )

To be fair, you also missed Cal kid Kelsey Hollenbeck, who started 25 games at right back.

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Re: UP vs Michigan

Post by SouthCarolinaPilot on Thu Sep 10, 2015 6:33 pm

It doesn't hurt those P5 schools that many of their women's soccer games will appear on TV. It's fun to have the annual game on ESPNU for UP, but I can watch almost every Georgia women's soccer game on the SEC Network. How many people get the SEC Network? Don't answer that. But, the presence of the B1G Network and the Pac 12 Network are probably huge recruiting tools for those schools.

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