2018 Recruiting

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Re: 2018 Recruiting

Post by DoubleDipper on Mon May 07, 2018 9:18 pm

NoPoNeighbor wrote:The grad transfer market is steadily drying up, as it does every year at this time. Any leads on actual names of a 2/3/4 (emphasis on the 3/4)?

When DD initially hints at a "grad transfer post player" but then pivots to a "2,3,4 perhaps," I've gotta think there's some real intel behind the change-of-heart study
up7587 wrote:We have seven scholarship guards who are not eligible to redshirt (F. Porter included).  We don't need a 2.
Haha, if I've pivoted it's because I was no longer an advocate of a 5 after Tryon signed, and like up7587, I realized there were plenty of 2s on the squad.  Yes, I'm now in favor of an athletic 3/4 who can rebound, shoot, drive, and dunk... pirat

The transfer market may be drying up, but as mentioned before, UP's waiting a while is a good strategy because the transferring players begin to realize they are not going to be courted by Power 6 schools for their few openings and look to mid-majors instead.

UP is like a ghost town now without any students until summer school begins, but with the recruiting dead period beginning in just 10 days, the Pilots should make a move on a grad-transfer soon or be prepared to wait a while longer.
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Re: 2018 Recruiting

Post by Sound Voltex on Thu May 10, 2018 1:07 am

Speaking of grad transfers, out of curiosity, when was the last time the Pilots had a grad transfer (if any)?
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Re: 2018 Recruiting

Post by NoPoNeighbor on Thu May 10, 2018 11:03 am

Working from Stonehouse's chart, here's the breakdown of the next five graduating classes (not including redshirts, except for F. Porter; and assuming that DD is correct in his prediction that Phillips will redshirt this coming season):

2019: 1 - Jackson
2020: 3 - Clark, McSwiggan, F. Porter
2021: 5 - Diabate, M. Porter, Shaver, Walker, Tryon
2022: 3 - Fahrensohn, Hogland, Akwuba
2023: 1 - Phillips

In terms of a four-year cycle, the class of 2019 directly feeds into the class of 2023. So our best move with our remaining scholarship (solely from the perspective of balance among the classes) is either a grad transfer with one year of immediate eligibility, who will join Jackson in the class of 2019, OR a high school senior who will redshirt this coming year and join Phillips in the class of 2023.

Either of these two moves would result in another spot in the class of 2023. The advantage of the grad transfer route is that we'd also get another player for this coming season, whose scholarship would then be available again next spring to offer to a high school senior who would join Phillips in the class of 2023.

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Re: 2018 Recruiting

Post by DoubleDipper on Thu May 10, 2018 11:20 am

Sound Voltex wrote:Speaking of grad transfers, out of curiosity, when was the last time the Pilots had a grad transfer (if any)?
No, but on the other hand, no player has left UP as a grad transfer in the 12 years the rule has been in effect…and that’s the good news, but that could change now that TP is redshirting players, something Rev rarely did.

There may be others, but the only players I can think of who could have left UP with eligibility after graduating are John Bailey and Thomas van der Mars.  John went to a D2 team, and Thomas stayed at UP.
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Re: 2018 Recruiting

Post by SouthCarolinaPilot on Thu May 10, 2018 11:48 am

Isn't part of that graduate transfer rule that the new institution has to offer a graduate degree in something the original institution does not have? I imagine that most graduate basketball players just get a masters in business administration, master's in communication, or a master's in sport management. UP offers 2 of those 3.
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Re: 2018 Recruiting

Post by DoubleDipper on Thu May 10, 2018 2:01 pm

Hmm, I wonder if we're getting all excited and ahead of ourselves when it comes to a grad-transfer coming to UP.

In September I wrote:
....there has been some talk of both Porters being on scholarship starting with the 2018-2019 season
And in November I wrote:
I can't imagine TP and the staff turning down any talented player with the right "fit" simply to save the cost of Franklin's scholarship.
At that time the speculation was Franklin would be on scholarship beginning this coming season, taking one of the two scholarships available (Phillips would take the other) from UP's graduating seniors, Tyson and Hartwich.

Since then, two more players have left the team, and their scholarships have been taken by Tryon and Akwuba.

Do you suppose the Pilots are done signing players for this season unless "a talented player with the right "fit"" comes along, and we have just gotten ourselves overly excited about a grad-transfer without any basis? Shocked
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Re: 2018 Recruiting

Post by Stonehouse on Thu May 10, 2018 2:06 pm

SouthCarolinaPilot wrote:Isn't part of that graduate transfer rule that the new institution has to offer a graduate degree in something the original institution does not have? I imagine that most graduate basketball players just get a masters in business administration, master's in communication, or a master's in sport management. UP offers 2 of those 3.

I believe that was part of the rule when it was first implemented, but has since been removed. From my understanding, as long as the student-athlete meets the academic enrollment requirements for any given school's grad program, they can enroll without having to sit out a year.

I'm sure some conferences have taken steps to prevent intra-conference grad transfers, but I'm not sure what those might be.
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Re: 2018 Recruiting

Post by Geezaldinho on Thu May 10, 2018 8:15 pm

The whole student transfer landscape may be changing .

https://www.ncaa.org/about/resources/media-center/news/working-group-supports-notification-transfer-proposal


Note that part of the proposal says that if a transferring grad student doesn’t graduate from a two year program the school can’t use the scholarship for the second year.

That may end graduate transfers altogether.
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Re: 2018 Recruiting

Post by DoubleDipper on Wed May 23, 2018 8:24 am

Franklin will be on scholarship next season, and presumably the next two seasons, and IMO that’s the way it should be.

I always considered it strange that Franklin, as a walk-on, played every game last season while creating a situation where there were essentially 14 players vying for playing time on a squad that rarely went more than eight deep during games.

The decision to have Franklin on scholarship was probably not without some family discussion too, as there was reportedly one grad-transfer visiting UP for the then open scholarship who was potentially a starter and could have shoved Franklin down the rotation a notch.

Regardless of their athletic potential or the potential to get playing time, the now current roster of 13 scholarship players and 4 walk-ons should be plenty for TP and his staff to mold into an above .500 team.
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Re: 2018 Recruiting

Post by NoPoNeighbor on Wed May 23, 2018 10:45 am

DoubleDipper wrote:The decision to have Franklin on scholarship was probably not without some family discussion too, as there was reportedly one grad-transfer visiting UP for the then open scholarship who was potentially a starter and could have shoved Franklin down the rotation a notch.
Please tell me this does not mean what it sounds like. Because it sounds like the Pilots had a chance to sign a player who would have made the team better ("potentially a starter"), but decided against it because it would have hurt the playing time of the coach's son ("shoved Franklin down the rotation a notch"). If this player actually visited UP, we have to assume that the other members of the team know about this situation. What does this do for team cohesion and trust in the coaching staff? A superior player was turned away in order to protect the playing time of an inferior player? What does that say about the staff's commitment to build a winning program?

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Re: 2018 Recruiting

Post by MesaPilot1 on Wed May 23, 2018 12:43 pm

NoPoNeighbor wrote:
DoubleDipper wrote:The decision to have Franklin on scholarship was probably not without some family discussion too, as there was reportedly one grad-transfer visiting UP for the then open scholarship who was potentially a starter and could have shoved Franklin down the rotation a notch.
Please tell me this does not mean what it sounds like. Because it sounds like the Pilots had a chance to sign a player who would have made the team better ("potentially a starter"), but decided against it because it would have hurt the playing time of the coach's son ("shoved Franklin down the rotation a notch"). If this player actually visited UP, we have to assume that the other members of the team know about this situation. What does this do for team cohesion and trust in the coaching staff? A superior player was turned away in order to protect the playing time of an inferior player? What does that say about the staff's commitment to build a winning program?


I personally am going to reserve critical judgement about Coach Porters roster moves this year until we see how the team comes together this fall.....I will be disapointed if the Grad transfer was a post player....but , if its like it sounds- another guard,,,,Pilots dont need another GUARD........Pilots are still GUARD HEAVY even with the three incoming post players...
I have faith in Shaver , Clark and their backups .....

But, that being said...I get where your coming from NoPo....as much as I would like to see the Pilots improve their record  I  never want to see them turn away players who can help considering these  TWO lousy seasons that have just been recorded.

A .500 record this year would be great to me Cool ...


Last edited by MesaPilot1 on Wed May 23, 2018 2:01 pm; edited 4 times in total (Reason for editing : ..)

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Re: 2018 Recruiting

Post by NoPoNeighbor on Wed May 23, 2018 2:06 pm

MesaPilot1 wrote:I personally am going to reserve critical judgement about Coach Porters roster moves this year until we see how the team comes together this fall.....I will be disapointed if the Grad transfer was a post player....but , if its like it sounds- another guard,,,,Pilots dont need another GUARD........Pilots are still GUARD HEAVY even with the three incoming post players...
I have faith in Shaver , Clark and their backups .....
I agree with you, Mesa. I think we have good depth at the guard position. My point wasn't about any specific player or position; it was about how a decision is made to add a player to the roster (or, in this case, not add someone to the roster).

DD tells us that a potential grad transfer visited campus, and that this player could have cracked the starting lineup. If the coaches invited him to visit campus, they must have thought that he would have filled a needed role on the team. (Whether or not you and I think that is true is another matter, given the need for another post player vis a vis another guard.)

Per DD's report, this player is not joining the team. But the reason is not that the coaches decided we don't need another guard (why would they make that decision after inviting a guard to visit campus?), nor that he wasn't good enough. In fact, it to the contracry, the reason this player was turned away is that he is better than F. Porter. He was turned away because he was too good, relative to the coach's son.

I sincerely hope that this report is inaccurate, or mis-stated. But per what DD wrote, that is my interpretation.

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Re: 2018 Recruiting

Post by MesaPilot1 on Wed May 23, 2018 4:46 pm

Yes, the way I interpreted the grad transfer visit  is just like you did...which I too find somewhat confusing cyclops and irrational...?

Maybe DD could explain his post?
I know that he has much more first hand witness and knowledge of the current squad than I do...

Go Pilots!

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Re: 2018 Recruiting

Post by DoubleDipper on Wed May 23, 2018 10:31 pm

I’m not in favor of bringing in a one-and-done grad-transfer at any position, even if he’s a “potential starter.”

Grad-transfers may help some teams, but in the long-run what would a grad-transfer do for the Pilots lineup/roster/team unity when the coaches are trying to develop freshmen and sophomores?

If I were the coach, I would look for a relatively tall (6-6 to 6-9) and athletic transfer or JUCO 2-4 swing who is not necessarily a star, but wants to show he can be.  It's okay if he has just average offensive stats as long as he's a good defender (hard to find these days) and a good leader from the bench/locker room or on the court as a utility player.

The team does not need anymore freshmen or sophomores!  Evil or Very Mad
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Re: 2018 Recruiting

Post by DoubleDipper on Thu May 24, 2018 12:08 am

MesaPilot1 wrote: Maybe DD could explain his post?
In my original post I did not intend to infer “A superior player was turned away in order to protect the playing time of an inferior player,” because I don’t know why TP did not make an offer to this player, but it might be because he decided this was not the time to bring a one-and-done grad-transfer to the team.

I used the term “potential starter” to describe the grad-transfer because that’s the term a good friend of mine, who is also a GU alum and insider, used to describe him when he asked why UP didn’t make the grad-transfer an offer even though he’d been accepted by the grad school and apparently wanted to attend UP.

Ten days ago, just after the grad-transfer’s visit, I’d heard that Franklin was the recipient of the remaining scholarship. This morning my GU friend told me that in addition to GU, the grad-transfer is now considering at least three other schools, one of which he thought was South Carolina.

Bottom line: A good player who apparently wanted to attend UP was not offered a scholarship for reasons unknown at about the same time Franklin received the remaining open scholarship.  Was it just a coincidence? Was it because TP felt family pressure to give Franklin more playing time? Was it because TP, like me, determined a grad-transfer was not the best for the team?

Whatever the reason, TP is the head coach, it's up to him to ensure team chemistry, and it’s his decision to make!
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Re: 2018 Recruiting

Post by DoubleDipper on Thu May 24, 2018 8:56 am

Rashad Jackson has left the team.

All indications are RJ will remain in school and graduate on time in May, but he will not be on an athletic scholarship after summer school. RJ will neither play nor practice with the team.

RJ will still have one year of eligibility remaining upon graduation and would like to grad-transfer to another school for the 2019-20 season.

I think all of us who have supported RJ during his first three years on the Bluff, and hoped we see him on the court again, can applaud his decision to finish his UP degree and still have the opportunity to live his dream of playing college and professional basketball.

To RJ, thanks for all the thrills you’ve given us, looking forward to seeing you around campus….
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Re: 2018 Recruiting

Post by PilotNut on Thu May 24, 2018 9:14 am

Best wishes to RJ... I am glad that he will be getting his degree.  

So, that opens up a scholarship again?  Say, if there was a grad transfer that would be interested... Question  

Although from DD's timing, it sounds like this must have been known previously... if Franklin was told he would be on scholarship prior to the mystery visit, Coach would have had to have a scholarship to offer at that point... does this also mean that if there is no grad transfer in the wings, that we may still be looking to land one?

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Re: 2018 Recruiting

Post by Dean Murdoch on Thu May 24, 2018 9:22 am

Hypothetical situation - let's assume that the grad transfer guard was actually good enough to start for the Pilots this year and is a one-and-done. But let's be realistic, this guy isn't a Tramaine Isabell-type guy who's one of the most sought-after grad transfers right now. We're talking a minor upgrade at the SG position over Clark, Porter, or Porter.

You are Coach Porter. Do you offer the guy a scholarship and take the option of having either Malcolm or Franklin walk on this year?

Things to consider -

• Theoretically, it should immediately improve the Pilots for 2018-19.
• This player won't just affect playing time from guys with the last name Porter - the addition also will likely impact Clark, Walker, and Fahrensohn.
• Barring transfer, all core returning players have at least two seasons left. In the case of Shaver, Walker, and Malcolm (and of course, Diabate, but I'm just talking guards here) they've got three years left. With the team clearly building towards 2019-20 and 2020-21, is the best thing for those future teams to let this core take the ball this year or add this transfer in the hopes that his impact will be felt not only on game days this season, but by having to go up against him in practice?

I honestly don't know what the answer is.
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Re: 2018 Recruiting

Post by up7587 on Thu May 24, 2018 9:32 am

Best wishes to Rashad, and thanks for all the effort he displayed as a Pilot player.

It was clear he was not in the plans for significant playing time. As an undergraduate, I assume his options are to transfer within D1 and sit a year, transfer to a lower division and play immediately, or leave the team, graduate, then transfer. He chose the least traveled path. What options does he have to keep his basketball skills fresh besides dominating intramural games?
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Re: 2018 Recruiting

Post by PilotNut on Thu May 24, 2018 11:00 am

Good points, Dean... there would be concerns chemistry-wise if we brought in a guard. The more I think about it, the more I realize that. In the spirit of previous comments that the current roster needs to be "recruited" every year to avoid transfers, I think the staff needs to proceed with caution if they bring in someone who would only be here for 1 year.

I think if we were able to get a grad transfer big man, that is a different story--we could use another body immediately, but we will hope that Tryon is able to step in right away.

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Re: 2018 Recruiting

Post by wrv on Thu May 24, 2018 11:28 am

For sure best wishes to Rashad. Note, however, that the decision not to convey a scholarship offer to the potential grad transfer is unlikely related to Franklin getting a scholarship. I count twelve, including our three incoming players, without Rashad--or have I miscounted? If not, team cohesion and an ability to give our players fair minutes must have factored more heavily.

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Re: 2018 Recruiting

Post by DoubleDipper on Thu May 24, 2018 11:57 am

up7587 wrote:What options does he have to keep his basketball skills fresh besides dominating intramural games?
Good question.  RJ apparently has a few options available, but just "wasn't comfortable" continuing to practice with the team.
PilotNut wrote:Good points, Dean... there would be concerns chemistry-wise if we brought in a guard.  The more I think about it, the more I realize that.  In the spirit of previous comments that the current roster needs to be "recruited" every year to avoid transfers, I think the staff needs to proceed with caution if they bring in someone who would only be here for 1 year.  
Amen!  I think the ONLY option is a 2-year guy, preferably a JUCO who can fit in right away as a utility swing player, not necessarily a guard or forward.
DoubleDipper wrote:The team does not need anymore freshmen or sophomores!  Evil or Very Mad
wrv wrote:I count twelve, including our three incoming players, without Rashad--or have I miscounted? If not, team cohesion and an ability to give our players fair minutes must have factored more heavily.
Yup, 12, and a good point, wrv, fair minutes and team cohesion should be factors in any decision.
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Re: 2018 Recruiting

Post by DoubleDipper on Thu May 24, 2018 12:23 pm

Hey, Stonehouse....

Don't finalize that chart just yet, I just got word there will be a "basketball announcement" of some sort coming this afternoon.

Hopefully it will be the conclusion of 2018 recruiting that will include 13 scholarship players and 4 walk-ons.
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Re: 2018 Recruiting

Post by Stonehouse on Thu May 24, 2018 12:32 pm

DoubleDipper wrote:Hey, Stonehouse....

Don't finalize that chart just yet, I just got word there will be a "basketball announcement" of some sort coming this afternoon.

Hopefully it will be the conclusion of 2018 recruiting that will include 13 scholarship players and 4 walk-ons.

Ha ha, I'll sit tight and stay tuned! Smile
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Re: 2018 Recruiting

Post by PilotNut on Thu May 24, 2018 12:56 pm

Maybe the announcement is that StudentPilot has committed to play next year? Duck!

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