WCC First Round: UP vs. LMU, Thursday 6:00 (BYUtv)

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Re: WCC First Round: UP vs. LMU, Thursday 6:00 (BYUtv)

Post by PilotNut on Thu Mar 06, 2014 9:59 pm

PurpleGeezer wrote:You rally think it was x's and O's?

That he coaches running over players and passing to no one?

ok, bobby, throw it wider. There was a one in a million chance VDM coulda got that pass.  Once again. Let's run through it until we get it 100% wrong

Maybe it was the players and not the coach.

There are plenty of things to look at here... yes, many failures in execution by players (Revs recruits, btw)... but in my opinion, this was a fail by the coaching staff in handling the LMU pressure. We have been horrible against the press all year--and have we improved on that at all since November? (I am quite frankly surprised every team didn't do what LMU did to us tonight). Were there adjustments at halftime? They weren't apparent. We have that same play to try to break the press where VDM stands near the mid court sideline... it's painful to watch. Why was Carr still playing the point with under 5 minutes to go after the way things were going?

I also have to question preparation for tournament games... the results don't lie.


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Re: WCC First Round: UP vs. LMU, Thursday 6:00 (BYUtv)

Post by Geezaldinho on Thu Mar 06, 2014 10:09 pm

No, we have only been horrible against the press when our starting point guard and/or are best player are on the bench.

We ewr not only decent against the press, but could be pretty awesome doing some of it ourselves.

Go back and look at the Gonzaga game.

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Re: WCC First Round: UP vs. LMU, Thursday 6:00 (BYUtv)

Post by mikemac65 on Thu Mar 06, 2014 10:15 pm

One game does not a season make.

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Re: WCC First Round: UP vs. LMU, Thursday 6:00 (BYUtv)

Post by oldtimer on Thu Mar 06, 2014 10:21 pm

PurpleGeezer wrote:No, we have only been horrible against the press when our starting point guard and/or are best player are on the bench.

We ewr not only decent against the press, but could be pretty awesome doing some of it ourselves.

Go back and look at the Gonzaga game.

Your best player was on the floor tonight but this game would have been a win if Alec had been available. It was a tough night for Carr, hopefully he can take this game and use it to learn from and improve for next year.


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Re: WCC First Round: UP vs. LMU, Thursday 6:00 (BYUtv)

Post by PurplePrideTrumpet on Thu Mar 06, 2014 10:30 pm

mikemac65 wrote:One game does not a season make.

Especially when it wasn't a game we were expected to win, or a game where we had a lot at stake. Don't misunderstand me, that win was one of the highlights of my time as a Pilot fan, but it also shows how much more this team could have done.

I like Reveno, but as stated earlier his teams still do not perform well in elimination games after all these years. That's probably the biggest hangup I have with him.

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Re: WCC First Round: UP vs. LMU, Thursday 6:00 (BYUtv)

Post by PilotNut on Thu Mar 06, 2014 10:32 pm

I will have to look at the GU game again... I don't remember that aspect of the game.

Looking at tonight, I realize that Pressley needed some rest... but why did Rev continue to play Carr at the point late in the second half? He was a liability against the pressure, and was not effective in running the offense when we did get the ball up the court. That is really what I don't understand.

Yes, we were without Alec & KB. But LMU was down to 7 players, too...

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Re: WCC First Round: UP vs. LMU, Thursday 6:00 (BYUtv)

Post by newpilotfan on Thu Mar 06, 2014 10:39 pm

PurpleGeezer wrote:You rally think it was x's and O's?

That he coaches running over players and passing to no one?

ok, bobby, throw it wider. There was a one in a million chance VDM coulda got that pass.  Once again. Let's run through it until we get it 100% wrong

Maybe it was the players and not the coach.

Geezer: X's and O's don't dictate how hard or wide a player makes a pass… It dictates who's making the pass in the first place. Perhaps you share Rev's affection for David Carr and thought that today's game was the one where we'd groom him for the starting PG job next year. Of course players bear some responsibility but who's on the floor are critical points of the game rests solely with Coach. No matter how much you love him you can't shift the blame this time sir.

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Re: WCC First Round: UP vs. LMU, Thursday 6:00 (BYUtv)

Post by newpilotfan on Thu Mar 06, 2014 11:10 pm

PilotNut wrote:The problem, NewPilotFan, is the financial realities of the situation.  

Last year, there were calls for giving Rev one more chance, with a team that would (finally) have some mature talent.  (Yes, the unbalanced class thing was self-inflicted).  I don't think that was all that unreasonable at the time.  UP is a small program; without the deep pockets to casually fire a coach (and pay out the contract) while paying even more for a new coach.  The U is not in a position to go out on a limb, and they didn't last year.  The U went with the conservative decision to keep Rev.

So, this year, a year with the most talent we have had in the last 4 years or so...  we end up with a losing record overall, a tie for 6th place in WCC play, the #7 seed, and another play-in round loss.  The U took a conservative stance in keeping Rev after last season, a stance I can't really disagree with (where should they have pulled funding from to fire him?).  But now we have another year of evidence, and we know how that went.  

The U has raised money to renovate Chiles Center, raised money for the new practice facility as part of the new Beauchamp Center, and increased funding for recruiting, assistant coach salaries and staff positions.  At what point will the U say that they are not getting enough return for that investment and decide to bite the bullet and make a coaching move?  Remember, a coaching move is no guaranty of improvement, either.  Who would we be able to afford to lure in that is an automatic improvement?  

Are we at the point that we can't afford NOT to do something major?  This program is mired in misery, fans are not attending, UP gear is not selling, our athletic reputation is still stuck in "Who are the Pilots?  They aren't Division I, are they Division II?".  We have lost season ticket holders, and this year will not reverse that trend.  Yes, we beat GU and BYU, but we still maintain embarrassing recent results against those programs.  

The results under Reveno don't lie (Wins/losses, butts in seats, general interest, etc).  Are the recruits we are bringing in closing the gap with the rest of the conference?  I am anxious to see what the next move by the U is...

I am no expert, but what I do believe is that something needs to change.  Not a little change.  Something program-changing.

Pilotnut: What makes this year any different than last? The financial situation will also be dire at a program like UP, made much more so because the basketball program isn't bringing in the money. It's the ultimate Catch-22. You also have a very critical flaw in your argument. The lack of talent over the last couple years is also Rev's fault. College head coach is the greatest job in the whole world. Unlike HS or even the NBA where you have to devise a plan to coach the players you have, college basketball allows you to pick your team. Setting aside the unbalanced classes (which makes me crazy) you have to admit that we've recruited several guys that you couldn't imagine playing in any other WCC program. The dramatic fall off after you get past our top 6 is where the real flaw is in this program. Granted, losing the top 5 scorer in the conference would hurt any team, but the lack of depth at PG is something that also rests solely at the head coaches feet. When are we gonna learn that lesson? We've had PG's go down in each of the past 4 years and have used that as an excuse.

Based on last years argument we're probably going to be even more talented next year than we are this. Do we give him another year and hope that no one gets hurt and that our incoming freshmen develop quickly, and that with a summer of practice Bobby Sharp regains his magic touch, and a senior Bailey and Van DerMars will probably be all conference players, and blah, blah, blah…? If it's time for a change, it's time for a change. No more excuses

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Re: WCC First Round: UP vs. LMU, Thursday 6:00 (BYUtv)

Post by up7587 on Thu Mar 06, 2014 11:19 pm

All I know, is there is no freaking way Alec Wintering is not all freshman team. He!!, based on tonight he should have been all-conference to win the games we did. Without him, zero wins.

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Re: WCC First Round: UP vs. LMU, Thursday 6:00 (BYUtv)

Post by PilotNut on Thu Mar 06, 2014 11:35 pm

NewPilotFan: The intention of my post was to state that I understood why Rev was given another year (this year)... not that I 100% agreed with it, but I understood. (For the record, at the end of last year I was not happy, either--you can find my rants on here--but I was realistic in considering what the U was up against at that time... I can see that there was a case to be optimistic 1 year ago. I also think that many programs are too quick to fire a coach). Rev was given another year, and it resulted in another disappointing year... so yes, we are at a similar point tonight, and I am wondering if the U will decide differently based on the (lack of) returns on the inve$tment$ to date. I think the difference between last year and this year is that there is less optimism as well as more evidence/results with a team with more talent/experience.

It will be an interesting couple of days/weeks...

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Re: WCC First Round: UP vs. LMU, Thursday 6:00 (BYUtv)

Post by NoPoNeighbor on Fri Mar 07, 2014 12:47 am

newpilotfan wrote:Setting aside the unbalanced classes (which makes me crazy) you have to admit that we've recruited several guys that you couldn't imagine playing in any other WCC program. The dramatic fall off after you get past our top 6 is where the real flaw is in this program.
Agreed. You really dig yourself a hole when you have multiple players taking up scholarships who basically do not contribute to the team at all during games (whether that be because they are not D-I caliber players, e.g. John Bailey, David Carr, Zubizarretta(?) or because the coaching staff seems to have some bizarre aversion to letting them play, e.g. Tanner Riley). Then when your starters get hurt, some of those guys have to play, and they can't cut it.

Sure they are great guys, and contribute a lot during practices. But walk-ons and team managers can do that, too.

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Re: WCC First Round: UP vs. LMU, Thursday 6:00 (BYUtv)

Post by NoPoNeighbor on Fri Mar 07, 2014 12:53 am

PurpleGeezer wrote:No, we have only been horrible against the press when our starting point guard and/or are best player are on the bench.
This is not correct. There were some early season non-conference games in which we struggled mightily against the press. Oregon State comes to mind. Also, you seem to be saying the KB helped us break the press. Wrong. He frequently commits TOs when he brings the ball up the court against the press. This is not a personnel issue. It is a coaching and preparation issue.

But let's pretend that this assessment is right. Do you really want to defend a coach by saying that his team is good at doing something as long as one specific player is on the court? And if that player is injured, or in foul trouble, or needs a breather, the coach is then off the hook for the performance of the team?

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Re: WCC First Round: UP vs. LMU, Thursday 6:00 (BYUtv)

Post by Guest on Fri Mar 07, 2014 1:00 am

One note from Pomeroy's stats - Pilots will finish 344th out of 351 D1 teams in the Luck category, which he defines as "a measure of the deviation between a team’s actual winning percentage and what one would expect from its game-by-game efficiencies. Essentially, a team involved in a lot of close games should not win (or lose) all of them."

But what he calls luck, many people would categorize as "execution in close games" - and this team wasn't able to pull out a single victory late except for BYU, and even in that game the Pilots led by 7 with 30 seconds left in the first OT but gave that up before finally winning in the third.

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Re: WCC First Round: UP vs. LMU, Thursday 6:00 (BYUtv)

Post by NoPoNeighbor on Fri Mar 07, 2014 1:06 am

DeanMurdoch wrote:But what he calls luck, many people would categorize as "execution in close games" - and this team wasn't able to pull out a single victory late except for BYU, and even in that game the Pilots led by 7 with 30 seconds left in the first OT but gave that up before finally winning in the third.
And the Pilots also gave up a lead at the end of regulation. A turnover on an inbounds plays was key to BYU getting the game to overtime in the first place.

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Re: WCC First Round: UP vs. LMU, Thursday 6:00 (BYUtv)

Post by up7587 on Fri Mar 07, 2014 7:49 am


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Re: WCC First Round: UP vs. LMU, Thursday 6:00 (BYUtv)

Post by wrv on Fri Mar 07, 2014 7:52 am

To the point: who on earth would be available if Reveno is let go or resigns? I do not think this loss and this year, as painful as they were at times, have the feel of the end of the Holton era. The team plays together and fights. The team is improving, if slowly, and may well, even with the current group, and perhaps another point who can run the team if Wintering cannot, be about to break into the upper half of the league . . .I hope so.

I think enough of Reveno as a coach and as a leader of young men that I do not answer that question the same way many of you have.

I have no feel whatsoever where the athletic department is on his future, but I am inclined to believe he will be back.

Let’s hope the team shows it mettle next year.


Last edited by wrv on Sat Mar 08, 2014 9:47 am; edited 1 time in total

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Re: WCC First Round: UP vs. LMU, Thursday 6:00 (BYUtv)

Post by Guest on Fri Mar 07, 2014 9:06 am

newpilotfan wrote:Can't wait for the next tweet tho… Should be a doozy!

Happy?

@CoachReveno wrote:At airport leaving Las Vegas too early AND too soon. And leaving heart broken. Sorry weren't able to finish yr in way fitting for this team.

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Re: WCC First Round: UP vs. LMU, Thursday 6:00 (BYUtv)

Post by NoPoNeighbor on Fri Mar 07, 2014 9:19 am

Many of us had very modest expectations for this team at the beginning of the year. The WCC coaches thought we would finish 9th.

But as the season progressed, it became obvious that this team was better than most observers had anticipated. VDM and Bailey had break-out years. Wintering took to D-I like a fish to water. Bryce Pressley overachieved. Nicholas was more consistent and steady than he had been in past seasons. Turnovers were dramatically down. Three-point shooting was significantly up. Multiple guys were nightly threats to score in double figures. There was the Spain trip that gave the Pilots an extra leg-up. By all accounts the team had great chemistry and leadership.

In the context of the Portland program, it is now obvious that this was an "up" year. This was NOT a rebuilding year. Key players had experience, save Wintering (though that is clearly no excuse; in college basketball teams often need freshmen to play key roles -- and Wintering did). This should not have been a, "wow, we'll be good next year," year. This should have been a good year!

And yet, in the end, it was another disappointment. Where does the blame lie for that? Bad luck? A couple of costly injuries at the end of the year? This team's woes were not confined to the last 5 games. There was N. Texas, Montana State in the non-conference. USF, Santa Clara, and San Diego at home... But those last 5 games certainly exposed the fundamental shortcomings of not only this team, but of the program.

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Re: WCC First Round: UP vs. LMU, Thursday 6:00 (BYUtv)

Post by Pilot2002 on Fri Mar 07, 2014 10:06 am

I wasn't able to watch the game, but from looking at the stats how does Pressley only attempt 3 shots in 35 minutes of play. We also went 5-12 from the free throw line in the 2nd half.

I feel this was a year of missed opportunities. Outside of the game @BYU the Pilots were in all the games for league play. And really you could make an argument outside of Michigan State this was the case in nonconference as well.


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Re: WCC First Round: UP vs. LMU, Thursday 6:00 (BYUtv)

Post by PilotNut on Fri Mar 07, 2014 10:09 am

wrv wrote:To the point: who on earth would be available if Reveno is let go or resigns? I do not think this loss and this year, as painful as they were at times, have the feel of the end of the Holton era. The team plays together and fights. The team is improving, if slowly, and may well, even with the current group, and perhaps another point who can run the team if Wintering cannot, be about to break into the upper half of the league . . .I hope so.

I think enough of Reveno as a coach and as a leader of young men that I do not answer that question the same way many of you have.

I have no feel whatsoever where the athletic department is on his future, but I am inclined to believe he will be back.

Let’s hope the team shows it metal next year.

I agree on the point of the big question of who we would get to replace him.  Would we take another risk with an unproven assistant/non D-I coach?  That has not worked well for us so far.  And while I agree that the team is may be very slowly improving (but I question how much of that is lift from the rise of the rest of the WCC), and next year we have 4 starters back...  but what about after that?  Between this year's 4 seniors and then 6 next year, there is massive roster turnover.  How do we feel about the recuits that Rev is bringing in?  Can anyone really look me in the eye and tell me that the 10 players we will bring in over the next 2 off-seasons are above and beyond what other WCC schools are bringing in, to close the gap?  What are we doing that will improve our standing relative to other WCC programs?   In my opinion, if there is not a culture change around this program and athletic department, we will remain a consistent bottom tier, play-in game program.

I am tired of being at the bottom of the league standings (how many years out of the last 30?).  I am tired of ending up in (and losing) the play-in game.  I am tired of "waiting for next year".  I am tired of trying to defend the program.  I am tired of the apathy amongst alumni and those that "should" be interested in the program.

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Re: WCC First Round: UP vs. LMU, Thursday 6:00 (BYUtv)

Post by blacksheep on Fri Mar 07, 2014 10:20 am

I've been waited to post until the agony of defeat wears off. Definitely a tough way to end the season.

I know many of you want to place the blame squarely on Rev, and while there are lots of things that frustrate me about him, this one isn't on him.

If would be great if we had the depth of a big time program, but we don't. Losing Alec and Kevin crippled this team. David Carr hardly played all season and we expect him to come in and lead our team in March. It's just too much to ask.

I can tell you that this year was some of the most fun I've had in Chiles. The team was a pleasure to watch and won some great games. Sure, we lost too many as well, but we were always competitive. The end of season injuries were tough, and in the end, too much to overcome.

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Re: WCC First Round: UP vs. LMU, Thursday 6:00 (BYUtv)

Post by up7587 on Fri Mar 07, 2014 10:51 am

On the bright side, I didn't take the trip to Vegas this year. so I don't have to sit around for four days at the blackjack tables all depressed, listening to the cocky GU guys.


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Re: WCC First Round: UP vs. LMU, Thursday 6:00 (BYUtv)

Post by dholcombe on Fri Mar 07, 2014 11:35 am

A lot, but not all, of the bad in this season comes down to luck. Should we have fouled up 3 before that crazy 3 pointer...yes. Even though we didn't it was incredibly lucky for USF that it went in. We seemed to have a good plan to keep the ball out of shooters hands and executed well. Unfortunately for us Chris Adams made his only basket of the entire game. I don't think Rev will make that mistake again and he commented about it on Twitter, so he is learning from his coaching mistakes as well.

I suspect that if even one of those games goes our way and we started play on Saturday instead of Thursday very few people would be calling for Revs head. I'd much rather have Reveno back than take a risk on a new coach without a proven record and I don't believe we have the money to go out and hire a big name coach that will instantly turn the program around.

Inbounds plays were largely improved this year over prior years although there were still a few here and there at times that were questionable. Reveno does a good job with the bigs for the most part, but I still think he needs to hire himself a better guard coach as one of his assistants and/or delegate guard coaching to the assistants he has if we already have a decent guard coach. Unsure what the situation is there.

Reveno seems to be improving as a coach over time. Although the results are not what we'd like I can't say I'd rather spend a bunch of $$$ to buy out his contract and get a ? in his place. How long was the new contract we gave him anyhow? I don't remember.

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Re: WCC First Round: UP vs. LMU, Thursday 6:00 (BYUtv)

Post by up7587 on Fri Mar 07, 2014 12:12 pm

Or, we could always go for the Rex Walters style of coach. Bring 'em in, run 'em off, don't graduate anyone. We'd all be really happy, then.

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Re: WCC First Round: UP vs. LMU, Thursday 6:00 (BYUtv)

Post by NoPoNeighbor on Fri Mar 07, 2014 1:24 pm

dholcombe wrote:I suspect that if even one of those games goes our way and we started play on Saturday instead of Thursday very few people would be calling for Revs head.
Yes, this is correct. If we had won "even one" of our last five games... OR "even one" of the home games against USF, SCU, and USD, we would have played on Saturday, and this uproar would not exist. The fact is that we did not win ANY of those games. That is exactly the problem. That is not a reason for us to stay the course. It is a reason for us to change course.

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