The Catholic Seven

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The Catholic Seven

Post by Geezaldinho on Sat Dec 15, 2012 11:48 am

It's official.

The seven non-football Catholic schools in the Big East are forming their own conference.

http://www.cbssports.com/collegebasketball/blog/eye-on-college-basketball/21406573/catholic-7-officially-announce-separation-from-football-playing-members.

They need 8 to even apply for an automatic bid for tournaments. Who's next?

Gonzaga isn't mentioned.

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Re: The Catholic Seven

Post by DoubleDipper on Sat Dec 15, 2012 12:04 pm

I think geography will be a small factor in terms of what school will be added next, but it can be a determining factor if there's a need for a tie-breaker.

One problem with Spokane is you almost invariably have to go through SeaTac to get there.

Bottom line, the favored additional schools are:

Creighton, Xavier, Dayton, Saint Louis and Butler.

Oooh, I can hardly wait to learn the name of the new Catholic League...so many names come to mind! Twisted Evil

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Re: The Catholic Seven

Post by pilotram on Sat Dec 15, 2012 12:28 pm

DoubleDipper wrote:
Oooh, I can hardly wait to learn the name of the new Catholic League...so many names come to mind! Twisted Evil
Probably deserves it's own thread.

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Re: The Catholic Seven

Post by Stonehouse on Mon Dec 17, 2012 1:17 pm

I've been chuckling at the Big Priest instead of the Big East.

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Re: The Catholic Seven

Post by DoubleDipper on Mon Dec 17, 2012 2:09 pm

Stonehouse wrote:I've been chuckling at the Big Priest instead of the Big East.
Ha ha, that does seem appropriate, but the name is already taken....at least here in Portland.

For the youngsters on PN, Bishop Paul Waldschmidt was president of the University of Portland (1962 to 1978) and Auxiliary Bishop of the Archdiocese of Portland, Oregon (1978–1994).

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Re: The Catholic Seven

Post by DaTruRochin on Wed Dec 19, 2012 10:27 am


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Re: The Catholic Seven

Post by DoubleDipper on Wed Dec 19, 2012 10:38 am

Hmmm, did these Catholic schools consult the Church before divorcing the Big East? Just wondering.... tongue

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Re: The Catholic Seven

Post by DaTruRochin on Wed Dec 19, 2012 10:39 am

The Holy See announced an annulment. I'm sure of it.

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Re: The Catholic Seven

Post by DoubleDipper on Wed Dec 19, 2012 11:22 am

DaTruRochin wrote:The Holy See announced an annulment. I'm sure of it.
Ah yes, once again, with enough money......

Is it the Catholic way, or have I just become a cynic?

I do remember from my UP education that the difference between the cynic and the skeptic is the difference between epistemology and ethics.

Skepticism is an epistemological word. Cynicism is ethical.

Epistemology is the branch of philosophy that deals with knowledge.

Ethics is the branch of philosophy that deals with morality.

OK, sorry, we were talking about the Catholic Seven going for the money. I sometimes fall back on the those evenings in the T-Room with any number of C.S.C priests as we philosophized into the night….I understand that doesn’t happen much anymore. Evil or Very Mad

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Re: The Catholic Seven

Post by DaTruRochin on Wed Dec 19, 2012 11:43 am

A few interesting takes by a few Jesuits:

http://thejesuitpost.org/site/2012/12/first-ecumenical-conference-of-the-east/

(Hahaha I used to give one of them a ride to school every day. The blog is a good follow, with different takes on sports, culture, theology and just life in general, even if it does come from that heathen Society of Jesus perspective Wink )

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Re: The Catholic Seven

Post by DoubleDipper on Wed Dec 19, 2012 12:16 pm

Hmm, interesting assessment of the "'50's Catholics" in the ghetto. It must be some sort of big-city east of the Mississippi River thing.

I grew up with NCAA Champion USF, Santa Clara, St. Mary's.....and Cal and Stanford. If there was a yearning to be join the "patriotic Protestants,” it did not exist in our West Coast world.

I suppose Kennedy, who was assassinated while I was at UP, was championed by the Catholics, but I don't recall it being about trying to cross some invisible line to respectability or acceptance of Catholics....to me it was all about the anti-Nixon vote.

Different perspectives from different cultures....and just think, all right here in the US....thank God.

Oh, and as for "Rudy," it's a movie watched at least twice a year by an agnostic friend of mine.....again, different perspectives.


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Re: The Catholic Seven

Post by DaTruRochin on Wed Dec 19, 2012 5:20 pm

West Coast and East Coast/Midwest are a VERY different academic/athletic culture from my limited experience... But I'll leave that up to the Geez.

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Re: The Catholic Seven

Post by Geezaldinho on Wed Dec 19, 2012 5:42 pm

There were in fact, still strong prejudices, especially in big cities like New York and Boston, about ethnic groups that happened to be largely Catholic, and there were (and are) still Gettoized sections of those cities.
Little Italy and the Five Points neighborhood in New York, and the South sides of Boston, Chicago, and Providence come especially to mind.


I think maybe DD is blocking history out a bit. Portland and Oregon aren't exactly free from those prejudices. This state did actually outlaw blacks once. And in the earlly part of the last century They dismembered the Polish Catholic neighborhood around Russel st. Where the White Eagle ( the symbol of Poland) is in the wake of the McKinley assassination.


When Kennedy ran for office, he had to make a Speech on Catholicism.
for you youngsters, I'll print it, courtesy NPR and the Kennedy Library.


On Sept. 12, 1960, presidential candidate John F. Kennedy gave a major speech to the Greater Houston Ministerial Association, a group of Protestant ministers, on the issue of his religion. At the time, many Protestants questioned whether Kennedy's Roman Catholic faith would allow him to make important national decisions as president independent of the church. Kennedy addressed those concerns before a skeptical audience of Protestant clergy. The following is a transcript of Kennedy's speech:



Kennedy:

" Rev. Meza, Rev. Reck, I'm grateful for your generous invitation to speak my views.

While the so-called religious issue is necessarily and properly the chief topic here tonight, I want to emphasize from the outset that we have far more critical issues to face in the 1960 election: the spread of Communist influence, until it now festers 90 miles off the coast of Florida; the humiliating treatment of our president and vice president by those who no longer respect our power; the hungry children I saw in West Virginia; the old people who cannot pay their doctor bills; the families forced to give up their farms; an America with too many slums, with too few schools, and too late to the moon and outer space.

These are the real issues which should decide this campaign. And they are not religious issues — for war and hunger and ignorance and despair know no religious barriers.

But because I am a Catholic, and no Catholic has ever been elected president, the real issues in this campaign have been obscured — perhaps deliberately, in some quarters less responsible than this. So it is apparently necessary for me to state once again not what kind of church I believe in — for that should be important only to me — but what kind of America I believe in.

I believe in an America where the separation of church and state is absolute, where no Catholic prelate would tell the president (should he be Catholic) how to act, and no Protestant minister would tell his parishioners for whom to vote; where no church or church school is granted any public funds or political preference; and where no man is denied public office merely because his religion differs from the president who might appoint him or the people who might elect him.

I believe in an America that is officially neither Catholic, Protestant nor Jewish; where no public official either requests or accepts instructions on public policy from the Pope, the National Council of Churches or any other ecclesiastical source; where no religious body seeks to impose its will directly or indirectly upon the general populace or the public acts of its officials; and where religious liberty is so indivisible that an act against one church is treated as an act against all.

For while this year it may be a Catholic against whom the finger of suspicion is pointed, in other years it has been, and may someday be again, a Jew— or a Quaker or a Unitarian or a Baptist. It was Virginia's harassment of Baptist preachers, for example, that helped lead to Jefferson's statute of religious freedom. Today I may be the victim, but tomorrow it may be you — until the whole fabric of our harmonious society is ripped at a time of great national peril.

Finally, I believe in an America where religious intolerance will someday end; where all men and all churches are treated as equal; where every man has the same right to attend or not attend the church of his choice; where there is no Catholic vote, no anti-Catholic vote, no bloc voting of any kind; and where Catholics, Protestants and Jews, at both the lay and pastoral level, will refrain from those attitudes of disdain and division which have so often marred their works in the past, and promote instead the American ideal of brotherhood.

That is the kind of America in which I believe. And it represents the kind of presidency in which I believe — a great office that must neither be humbled by making it the instrument of any one religious group, nor tarnished by arbitrarily withholding its occupancy from the members of any one religious group. I believe in a president whose religious views are his own private affair, neither imposed by him upon the nation, or imposed by the nation upon him as a condition to holding that office.

I would not look with favor upon a president working to subvert the First Amendment's guarantees of religious liberty. Nor would our system of checks and balances permit him to do so. And neither do I look with favor upon those who would work to subvert Article VI of the Constitution by requiring a religious test — even by indirection — for it. If they disagree with that safeguard, they should be out openly working to repeal it.

I want a chief executive whose public acts are responsible to all groups and obligated to none; who can attend any ceremony, service or dinner his office may appropriately require of him; and whose fulfillment of his presidential oath is not limited or conditioned by any religious oath, ritual or obligation.

This is the kind of America I believe in, and this is the kind I fought for in the South Pacific, and the kind my brother died for in Europe. No one suggested then that we may have a "divided loyalty," that we did "not believe in liberty," or that we belonged to a disloyal group that threatened the "freedoms for which our forefathers died."

And in fact ,this is the kind of America for which our forefathers died, when they fled here to escape religious test oaths that denied office to members of less favored churches; when they fought for the Constitution, the Bill of Rights and the Virginia Statute of Religious Freedom; and when they fought at the shrine I visited today, the Alamo. For side by side with Bowie and Crockett died McCafferty and Bailey and Carey. But no one knows whether they were Catholic or not, for there was no religious test at the Alamo.

I ask you tonight to follow in that tradition, to judge me on the basis of my record of 14 years in Congress, on my declared stands against an ambassador to the Vatican, against unconstitutional aid to parochial schools, and against any boycott of the public schools (which I have attended myself)— instead of judging me on the basis of these pamphlets and publications we all have seen that carefully select quotations out of context from the statements of Catholic church leaders, usually in other countries, frequently in other centuries, and always omitting, of course, the statement of the American Bishops in 1948, which strongly endorsed church-state separation, and which more nearly reflects the views of almost every American Catholic.

I do not consider these other quotations binding upon my public acts. Why should you? But let me say, with respect to other countries, that I am wholly opposed to the state being used by any religious group, Catholic or Protestant, to compel, prohibit, or persecute the free exercise of any other religion. And I hope that you and I condemn with equal fervor those nations which deny their presidency to Protestants, and those which deny it to Catholics. And rather than cite the misdeeds of those who differ, I would cite the record of the Catholic Church in such nations as Ireland and France, and the independence of such statesmen as Adenauer and De Gaulle.

But let me stress again that these are my views. For contrary to common newspaper usage, I am not the Catholic candidate for president. I am the Democratic Party's candidate for president, who happens also to be a Catholic. I do not speak for my church on public matters, and the church does not speak for me.

Whatever issue may come before me as president — on birth control, divorce, censorship, gambling or any other subject — I will make my decision in accordance with these views, in accordance with what my conscience tells me to be the national interest, and without regard to outside religious pressures or dictates. And no power or threat of punishment could cause me to decide otherwise.

But if the time should ever come — and I do not concede any conflict to be even remotely possible — when my office would require me to either violate my conscience or violate the national interest, then I would resign the office; and I hope any conscientious public servant would do the same.

But I do not intend to apologize for these views to my critics of either Catholic or Protestant faith, nor do I intend to disavow either my views or my church in order to win this election.

If I should lose on the real issues, I shall return to my seat in the Senate, satisfied that I had tried my best and was fairly judged. But if this election is decided on the basis that 40 million Americans lost their chance of being president on the day they were baptized, then it is the whole nation that will be the loser — in the eyes of Catholics and non-Catholics around the world, in the eyes of history, and in the eyes of our own people.

But if, on the other hand, I should win the election, then I shall devote every effort of mind and spirit to fulfilling the oath of the presidency — practically identical, I might add, to the oath I have taken for 14 years in the Congress. For without reservation, I can "solemnly swear that I will faithfully execute the office of president of the United States, and will to the best of my ability preserve, protect, and defend the Constitution, so help me God."

Transcript courtesy of the John F. Kennedy Presidential Library and Museum.


Last edited by PurpleGeezer on Wed Dec 19, 2012 9:43 pm; edited 6 times in total

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Re: The Catholic Seven

Post by DoubleDipper on Wed Dec 19, 2012 5:58 pm

PurpleGeezer wrote:I think maybe DD is blocking history out a bit. Portland and Oregon aren't exactly free from those prejudices. This state did actually outlaw blacks once. And in the earlly part of the last century They dismembered the Polish Catholic neighborhood around Russel st. Where the White Eagle ( the symbol of Poland) is in the wake of the Garfield assassination.
Thanks for the terrific history lesson, Geez, very well put.

But as far as blocking out history....I'm well aware of the prejudice towards blacks, the street I live on NOW in the Portland area outlawed "the non-white race" in its covenants.....until overturned by the Civil Rights Act.

But for the record, I grew up in Oakland! afro


Last edited by DoubleDipper on Wed Dec 19, 2012 9:56 pm; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : NOW)

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Re: The Catholic Seven

Post by Geezaldinho on Wed Dec 19, 2012 6:08 pm

Good use of the "afro" smiley. Very Happy

The original covenant in my neighborhood ( Irvington) outlawed blacks, Asians, and Catholics. You couldn't brew booze, either.

I hope you have the Manhattan ready. I won't make it. ( bad cold).

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Re: The Catholic Seven

Post by DoubleDipper on Wed Dec 19, 2012 9:55 pm

PurpleGeezer wrote:
I hope you have the Manhattan ready. I won't make it. ( bad cold).
Ha ha, your mother-in-law and I talked about the Manhattan, but again I was carrying g & t's at the time. A very nice and spunky lady...happy to have had the opportunity to meet her.

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Re: The Catholic Seven

Post by DaTruRochin on Thu Dec 20, 2012 12:01 pm

PurpleGeezer wrote: the South sides of Boston

That reminds me... I need to go to Southie sometime soon...

Back on point regarding the conferences, this is complete pie in the sky thinking, but wouldn't a C-7 combining with the WCC be awesome? Something like a 2 division conference with an Eastern and Western division where they primarily play each other in the current format but also have a few cross over games between the 2 divisions. It would give schools on both sides exposure on coasts they might not normally have. You could even have a big post season tourney with the best 4 from each divisions play off, and the remaining in a loser bracket sort of thing.

I have a feeling hubris on the side of the East coast teams would prevent things like this from happening, but why not put it on the table? If nothing else I think a ACC/Big 10 or Pac12/Big12 style tourney would be well in order due to how well the profile of the teams match up.

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Re: The Catholic Seven

Post by DoubleDipper on Thu Dec 20, 2012 1:36 pm

DaTruRochin wrote:
PurpleGeezer wrote: the South sides of Boston
Back on point regarding the conferences, this is complete pie in the sky thinking, but wouldn't a C-7 combining with the WCC be awesome? Something like a 2 division conference with an Eastern and Western division where they primarily play each other in the current format but also have a few cross over games between the 2 divisions,
I've talked to the AD about some scenarios, but that one didn't come up.

Suggestion: a quick email to the AD with your proposal....it probably wouldn’t be the worst proposal he's gotten.


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Re: The Catholic Seven

Post by DoubleDipper on Thu Dec 20, 2012 2:43 pm

Not being from the area, I always get Boston U. and Boston College confused when attempting to remember which is the Jesuit school.

Thinking it was Boston U. I quickly read the article about one of the Boston U. students in the headlines this morning……it turns out student, Olivia Culpo, beat 88 other contestants in Las Vegas last night to be crowned Miss Universe.

I lost the link to the pageant, but here’s a picture of Olivia that I did save……it would appear the poor college girl is starving...she should transfer to UP and eat in the Bauccio Commons. Razz

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Re: The Catholic Seven

Post by DaTruRochin on Thu Dec 20, 2012 3:55 pm

Hahaha, her older sister went to school with me for a semester last year oddly enough...

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Re: The Catholic Seven

Post by blacksheep on Thu Dec 20, 2012 4:36 pm

DaTruRochin wrote:Hahaha, her older sister went to school with me for a semester last year oddly enough...

What, no picture for DD?

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Re: The Catholic Seven

Post by pilotram on Thu Dec 20, 2012 5:18 pm

She looks malnourished, don't they feed their students at Boston U?

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