No more fighting Sioux

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No more fighting Sioux

Post by Geezaldinho on Tue Aug 16, 2011 4:58 pm

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Publish date: Aug 12, 2011
North Dakota plans to retire nickname

INDIANAPOLIS – North Dakota Gov. Jack Dalrymple said he will push to resume the process of retiring the controversial nickname and logo from the University of North Dakota after the NCAA reiterated its policy on Native American mascots, nicknames and imagery during a meeting here Friday.

Dalrymple and a group of state representatives had hoped to convince the NCAA to grant the school a waiver of the policy, which prohibits nicknames and imagery that are deemed hostile or abusive toward Native Americans, before facing sanctions on Aug. 15. Those sanctions would prohibit UND from hosting postseason tournaments or using its Fighting Sioux nickname and logo in any NCAA postseason events.

After Friday’s meeting, Dalrymple said it was clear that the NCAA would not alter its stance.

“It’s our understanding coming out of this meeting that the Fighting Sioux nickname and logo will be dropped,” said NCAA Vice President for Communications Bob Williams. “The contingent from North Dakota made it clear that they were committed to changing the legislative action that would require retention of the Fighting Sioux nickname and logo. However, our settlement agreement remains in effect, and,  as a result, the University of North Dakota will be subject to the policy effective Aug. 15.”

The meeting was the latest in a six-year odyssey that has played out in court rooms and the floor of the North Dakota legislature. The North Dakota Board of Education was in the process of retiring the Fighting Sioux nickname over the last two years, but it was stalled by a legislative bill passed in April. The new law, which took affect Aug. 1, mandated the continued use of the Fighting Sioux nickname and placed the authority for a name change in the legislature’s hands.

At that time, Dalrymple said the school expected potential punishment would be limited to the NCAA’s postseason bans. But the Big Sky Conference said in June that continued use of the nickname would complicate UND’s future membership in the conference, which was set to begin in November. Dalrymple said the possibility of scheduling boycotts from other schools was another unforeseen consequence.

The damage incurred from a continued fight outweighed the principles driving it, he said. “I have come to the conclusion that the cost of retaining the Sioux logo is too great,” Dalrymple said. “There’s no question that the settlement agreement will stand according to the NCAA, and there will be no further negotiations.”

Dalrymple said he will ask the North Dakota legislative leadership to allow legislation to be introduced during a special session on Nov. 7 that will transfer the responsibility for the logo and nickname from the legislature back to the Board of Higher Education, which could then retire it. Dalrymple said a nickname change would also require the approval of the UND Alumni Association’s Board of Directors.



Can anybody figure out why Fighting Irish is OK?

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Re: No more fighting Sioux

Post by Guest on Tue Aug 16, 2011 6:04 pm

It's my understanding that in order to have a nickname of a native american tribe (i.e. Seminoles, Chippewas, etc.) your school has to have the permission of the tribe. But, the NCAA is pushing for these things to be dropped, so I really don't understand why FSU Seminoles and CMU Chippewas are still okay. Here's my shortlist of questionable mascots (given these NCAA rules):

  • Florida State Seminoles
  • Central Michigan Chippewas
  • Notre Dame Fighting Irish
  • Illinois Fighting Illini
  • William and Mary Tribe
  • NJIT Highlanders
  • Penn Quakers
  • Iona Gaels
  • SDSU Aztecs
  • Utah Runnin' Utes


I would also question Ole Miss Rebels, anything Crusaders (just because of what crusaders actually did), and why don't we throw in Trojans and Spartans while we are at it. Stanford already got Indians thrown out so why not the rest of these?

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Re: No more fighting Sioux

Post by Geezaldinho on Tue Aug 16, 2011 6:45 pm

The Tribe claim they no longer refer to native Americans, but to the broader concept of community.

Vikings, terrible Swedes, vandals, huns, golden Horde, demon deacons, fighting friars, Battling Bishops, blue devils, and Gknightro and Glycerin are all pretty questionable.

Some I like:

the Golden Flash reminds me of the 60's....
My favorite, though is Brewer, the alcoholic beverage mascot of Vassar College.

(Founder Matthew Vassar brewed beer)

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Re: No more fighting Sioux

Post by Guest on Tue Aug 16, 2011 7:40 pm

Purplegeezer wrote:
The Tribe claim they no longer refer to native Americans, but to the broader concept of community.

With feathers in their logo?
Purplegeezer wrote:My favorite, though is Brewer, the alcoholic beverage mascot of Vassar College.

(Founder Matthew Vassar brewed beer)

Perhaps you should be a Dartmouth fan? Keggy the Keg?


Also, don't get me started on "Scrotie" the mascot for the Rhode Island School of Design... You can google that yourself.


Last edited by RipCityPilot on Tue Aug 16, 2011 7:45 pm; edited 1 time in total

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Re: No more fighting Sioux

Post by Geezaldinho on Tue Aug 16, 2011 7:44 pm

That's just the frat boys. They were the Indian until they became the moose.

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Re: No more fighting Sioux

Post by DJ Sherman on Sun Aug 21, 2011 12:08 pm

RipCityPilot wrote:It's my understanding that in order to have a nickname of a native american tribe (i.e. Seminoles, Chippewas, etc.) your school has to have the permission of the tribe. But, the NCAA is pushing for these things to be dropped, so I really don't understand why FSU Seminoles and CMU Chippewas are still okay.
study Read
Funny thing is, the reason they are still okay is the Seminole tribes of Florida and Oklahoma and the Chippewas are cool with it, at least since 2005 when the NCAA removed them from the "hostile or abusive" moniker list. The Oklahoman tribe had to approve because the NCAA did not want to appear to show favoritism to the Florida tribe, which explains the power of the split support in North Dakota had on the decision.

Also, the feathered William and Mary logo you referenced in your last post was "retired" in 2006. Though the university kept the "tribe" moniker; the mascot was changed to a griffin.

Oddly enough, the color scheme of the Griffin matches the prior "Indian" feather color scheme; hence the old logo could be used again. However, their athletics site uses the newer logo:

If they do not use the griffin logo, they opt for a "defeathered" version:
or

For Notre Dame, the explanation is not quite that simple, due to the mystery of the name, according to Notre Dame's athletic site.

One explanation has the media to blame:
The most generally accepted explanation is that the press coined the nickname as a characterization of Notre Dame athletic teams, their never-say-die fighting spirit and the Irish qualities of grit, determination and tenacity. The term likely began as an abusive expression tauntingly directed toward the athletes from the small, private, Catholic institution. Notre Dame alumnus Francis Wallace popularized it in his New York Daily News columns in the 1920s.

The moral of this story appears to be: if the majority of the leaders within the "offended party" do not find any reason to complain or do not take action on the moniker; it's fine.

Controversy is easy to report and grabs attention; more often than not, the correction or resolution fails to receive the proper fanfare unless it is also controversial. Rolling Eyes

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Re: No more fighting Sioux

Post by Guest on Thu Feb 09, 2012 12:12 pm

http://www.cnn.com/2012/02/08/us/north-dakota-mascot/index.html?hpt=hp_c3

There is nothing better to do in North Dakota, I suppose.

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Re: No more fighting Sioux

Post by DoubleDipper on Thu Feb 09, 2012 12:37 pm

OMG, did anyone else recognize these Pilots fans cheering UND's decision to keep the Fighting Sioux name?



Image courtesy of the UP Alumni office (Although I don't know why they would feature the guy in the dark shirt). Razz

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Re: No more fighting Sioux

Post by up7587 on Thu Feb 09, 2012 4:33 pm

Uh, the speculation is they were cheering for a t-shirt toss, not for the team. Suspect

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Re: No more fighting Sioux

Post by pilotfan4life on Thu Feb 09, 2012 5:18 pm

Where is their purple?!

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Re: No more fighting Sioux

Post by Woodless! on Thu Feb 09, 2012 6:18 pm

DD, while I would love to take credit for that shot, I cannot. That was a stock photo from marketing, probably titled 'fans excited about having cotton projectiles thrown at them'

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Re: No more fighting Sioux

Post by blacksheep on Fri Feb 10, 2012 11:09 am

I should have read the back of my ticket - "You consent to the use of your image without payment for media, commercials or publicity use."

Here I thought I was going to get a royalty check in the mail. Very Happy

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Re: No more fighting Sioux

Post by W W Winkie on Fri Feb 10, 2012 11:20 am

DoubleDipper wrote:OMG, did anyone else recognize these Pilots fans cheering UND's decision to keep the Fighting Sioux name?



Image courtesy of the UP Alumni office (Although I don't know why they would feature the guy in the dark shirt). Razz

Go Fighting Sioux

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Re: No more fighting Sioux

Post by DoubleDipper on Wed Jun 13, 2012 12:41 am

Tuesday's election results:
(Reuters) - Voters in North Dakota on Tuesday overwhelmingly endorsed a proposal to abolish the state university's "Fighting Sioux" nickname and Indian head logo, banned under a national college sports policy that deems such symbols as racially offensive.

More than 67 percent of voters supported the move that will allow the University of North Dakota to end its use of the nickname and logo - based on a Native American caricature - in order to avoid possible sanctions by the National Collegiate Athletic Association (NCAA).

However, supporters of the symbol have said they will continue their fight to retain the "Fighting Sioux" name and logo after years of appealing to alumni and to the state Legislature, which just last year passed a law to keep the images, only to then reverse itself with a repeal.

The university's alumni association and foundation had stayed neutral on the topic for decades, but in early February stepped in to support retiring the nickname and logo, spending $250,000 on the issue.

"The issue wasn't preference. If that were the case than clearly the name would be staying," said Tim O'Keefe, executive vice president and CEO of the alumni association and foundation. "It was about the significant price the University of North Dakota athletic program would pay under NCAA sanctions."


The NCAA, which governs college sports, adopted a policy in 2005 to bar images considered offensive by some Native American groups, but allows schools to use them if they gain approval from namesake groups.

It bars schools that don't from hosting championship events or wearing uniforms with the images during NCAA playoffs.

Retention of the name and logo could also make it harder to recruit players, complete athletic conference affiliations and schedule some opponents.

"GREAT DIVISION"

O'Keefe, who played hockey at North Dakota from 1967 to 1971, said the debate "has brought great division to a passionate and loyal alumni and friend base."

The NCAA had given North Dakota three years to obtain permission from two namesake tribes. One tribe approved, but the second never voted on the request, forcing the university to prepare to abolish the nickname and logo.

North Dakota lawmakers did intervene, passing a law in early 2011 that required the university to keep the name and logo, but repealed it months later under the threat of NCAA sanctions. Nickname supporters then gathered enough signatures to force the statewide vote held on Tuesday.

Indian mascots, nicknames and logos have been used widely in U.S. sports, and approval of their continued use or retirement by major universities has been mixed.

Under pressure from the NCAA, the University of Illinois retired its Chief Illiniwek mascot, who danced on the field at football games, but the namesake Seminole tribe approved Florida State University's continued presentation of a mascot who wears an Indian headdress and rides horseback at football games.


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Re: No more fighting Sioux

Post by Geezaldinho on Wed Jun 13, 2012 9:04 pm

It just keeps getting worse for the Fighting Soux.

http://www.cbssports.com/collegefootball/blog/eye-on-college-football/19346945/yes-the-ncaa-accidentally-shipped-north-dakota-states-championship-banner-to-north-dakota

First they tell them they can't use their mascot, then they poke them in the eye with they State rival's championship banner.

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Re: No more fighting Sioux

Post by A_Fan on Sat Jun 16, 2012 7:16 pm

After Stanford got rid of the Indian mascot they eventually let the students vote on a new mascot. The students, knowing the founder's history, wisely chose "Robber Barons". Unfortunately the administration refused to implement the student's choice.

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Re: No more fighting Sioux

Post by Geezaldinho on Sat Jun 16, 2012 7:30 pm

No doubt because it was a slur against peerages.

Now they just slam trees.

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The Stanford Griffins

Post by DoubleDipper on Sat Jun 16, 2012 11:49 pm

Of course the Cardinal have no actual mascot, but as the university seal and athletic logo have El Palo Alto (a redwood tree in Palo Alto) depicted on them, a band member dressed as a tree tries, usually with good effect, to add some levity to the mundane name, Cardinal.

It is my recollection from spending some time on the “Farm” in the early 70’s that in addition to the students liking Robber Barons as a possible nickname, there was also a push to be the Stanford Griffins. As this was well before the internet age, many of us had to head to the library to learn that a griffin was a half lion, half eagle creature. Although I never saw a depiction of a griffin I actually liked, I thought the concept of a half lion, half eagle creature was great. In the end I think there were too many who also didn’t know what the heck a griffin was, and the idea was dropped. Personally, I would still go for the Stanford Griffins over the Stanford Cardinal, even with El Palo Alto as the unofficial mascot.



However, the Cardinal cheerleaders are mighty nice……..


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