No more fighting Sioux

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No more fighting Sioux

Post by PurpleGeezer on Tue Aug 16, 2011 4:58 pm

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Publish date: Aug 12, 2011
North Dakota plans to retire nickname

INDIANAPOLIS – North Dakota Gov. Jack Dalrymple said he will push to resume the process of retiring the controversial nickname and logo from the University of North Dakota after the NCAA reiterated its policy on Native American mascots, nicknames and imagery during a meeting here Friday.

Dalrymple and a group of state representatives had hoped to convince the NCAA to grant the school a waiver of the policy, which prohibits nicknames and imagery that are deemed hostile or abusive toward Native Americans, before facing sanctions on Aug. 15. Those sanctions would prohibit UND from hosting postseason tournaments or using its Fighting Sioux nickname and logo in any NCAA postseason events.

After Friday’s meeting, Dalrymple said it was clear that the NCAA would not alter its stance.

“It’s our understanding coming out of this meeting that the Fighting Sioux nickname and logo will be dropped,” said NCAA Vice President for Communications Bob Williams. “The contingent from North Dakota made it clear that they were committed to changing the legislative action that would require retention of the Fighting Sioux nickname and logo. However, our settlement agreement remains in effect, and,  as a result, the University of North Dakota will be subject to the policy effective Aug. 15.”

The meeting was the latest in a six-year odyssey that has played out in court rooms and the floor of the North Dakota legislature. The North Dakota Board of Education was in the process of retiring the Fighting Sioux nickname over the last two years, but it was stalled by a legislative bill passed in April. The new law, which took affect Aug. 1, mandated the continued use of the Fighting Sioux nickname and placed the authority for a name change in the legislature’s hands.

At that time, Dalrymple said the school expected potential punishment would be limited to the NCAA’s postseason bans. But the Big Sky Conference said in June that continued use of the nickname would complicate UND’s future membership in the conference, which was set to begin in November. Dalrymple said the possibility of scheduling boycotts from other schools was another unforeseen consequence.

The damage incurred from a continued fight outweighed the principles driving it, he said. “I have come to the conclusion that the cost of retaining the Sioux logo is too great,” Dalrymple said. “There’s no question that the settlement agreement will stand according to the NCAA, and there will be no further negotiations.”

Dalrymple said he will ask the North Dakota legislative leadership to allow legislation to be introduced during a special session on Nov. 7 that will transfer the responsibility for the logo and nickname from the legislature back to the Board of Higher Education, which could then retire it. Dalrymple said a nickname change would also require the approval of the UND Alumni Association’s Board of Directors.




Can anybody figure out why Fighting Irish is OK?

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Re: No more fighting Sioux

Post by RipCityPilot on Tue Aug 16, 2011 6:04 pm

It's my understanding that in order to have a nickname of a native american tribe (i.e. Seminoles, Chippewas, etc.) your school has to have the permission of the tribe. But, the NCAA is pushing for these things to be dropped, so I really don't understand why FSU Seminoles and CMU Chippewas are still okay. Here's my shortlist of questionable mascots (given these NCAA rules):

  • Florida State Seminoles
  • Central Michigan Chippewas
  • Notre Dame Fighting Irish
  • Illinois Fighting Illini
  • William and Mary Tribe
  • NJIT Highlanders
  • Penn Quakers
  • Iona Gaels
  • SDSU Aztecs
  • Utah Runnin' Utes


I would also question Ole Miss Rebels, anything Crusaders (just because of what crusaders actually did), and why don't we throw in Trojans and Spartans while we are at it. Stanford already got Indians thrown out so why not the rest of these?

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Re: No more fighting Sioux

Post by PurpleGeezer on Tue Aug 16, 2011 6:45 pm

The Tribe claim they no longer refer to native Americans, but to the broader concept of community.

Vikings, terrible Swedes, vandals, huns, golden Horde, demon deacons, fighting friars, Battling Bishops, blue devils, and Gknightro and Glycerin are all pretty questionable.

Some I like:

the Golden Flash reminds me of the 60's....
My favorite, though is Brewer, the alcoholic beverage mascot of Vassar College.

(Founder Matthew Vassar brewed beer)

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Re: No more fighting Sioux

Post by RipCityPilot on Tue Aug 16, 2011 7:40 pm

Purplegeezer wrote:
The Tribe claim they no longer refer to native Americans, but to the broader concept of community.


With feathers in their logo?
Purplegeezer wrote:My favorite, though is Brewer, the alcoholic beverage mascot of Vassar College.

(Founder Matthew Vassar brewed beer)


Perhaps you should be a Dartmouth fan? Keggy the Keg?


Also, don't get me started on "Scrotie" the mascot for the Rhode Island School of Design... You can google that yourself.


Last edited by RipCityPilot on Tue Aug 16, 2011 7:45 pm; edited 1 time in total

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Re: No more fighting Sioux

Post by PurpleGeezer on Tue Aug 16, 2011 7:44 pm

That's just the frat boys. They were the Indian until they became the moose.

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Re: No more fighting Sioux

Post by DJ Sherman on Sun Aug 21, 2011 12:08 pm

RipCityPilot wrote:It's my understanding that in order to have a nickname of a native american tribe (i.e. Seminoles, Chippewas, etc.) your school has to have the permission of the tribe. But, the NCAA is pushing for these things to be dropped, so I really don't understand why FSU Seminoles and CMU Chippewas are still okay.

study Read
Funny thing is, the reason they are still okay is the Seminole tribes of Florida and Oklahoma and the Chippewas are cool with it, at least since 2005 when the NCAA removed them from the "hostile or abusive" moniker list. The Oklahoman tribe had to approve because the NCAA did not want to appear to show favoritism to the Florida tribe, which explains the power of the split support in North Dakota had on the decision.

Also, the feathered William and Mary logo you referenced in your last post was "retired" in 2006. Though the university kept the "tribe" moniker; the mascot was changed to a griffin.

Oddly enough, the color scheme of the Griffin matches the prior "Indian" feather color scheme; hence the old logo could be used again. However, their athletics site uses the newer logo:

If they do not use the griffin logo, they opt for a "defeathered" version:
or

For Notre Dame, the explanation is not quite that simple, due to the mystery of the name, according to Notre Dame's athletic site.

One explanation has the media to blame:
The most generally accepted explanation is that the press coined the nickname as a characterization of Notre Dame athletic teams, their never-say-die fighting spirit and the Irish qualities of grit, determination and tenacity. The term likely began as an abusive expression tauntingly directed toward the athletes from the small, private, Catholic institution. Notre Dame alumnus Francis Wallace popularized it in his New York Daily News columns in the 1920s.


The moral of this story appears to be: if the majority of the leaders within the "offended party" do not find any reason to complain or do not take action on the moniker; it's fine.

Controversy is easy to report and grabs attention; more often than not, the correction or resolution fails to receive the proper fanfare unless it is also controversial. Rolling Eyes

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Re: No more fighting Sioux

Post by RipCityPilot on Thu Feb 09, 2012 1:12 pm

http://www.cnn.com/2012/02/08/us/north-dakota-mascot/index.html?hpt=hp_c3

There is nothing better to do in North Dakota, I suppose.

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Re: No more fighting Sioux

Post by DoubleDipper on Thu Feb 09, 2012 1:37 pm

OMG, did anyone else recognize these Pilots fans cheering UND's decision to keep the Fighting Sioux name?



Image courtesy of the UP Alumni office (Although I don't know why they would feature the guy in the dark shirt). Razz

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Re: No more fighting Sioux

Post by up7587 on Thu Feb 09, 2012 5:33 pm

Uh, the speculation is they were cheering for a t-shirt toss, not for the team. Suspect

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Re: No more fighting Sioux

Post by pilotfan4life on Thu Feb 09, 2012 6:18 pm

Where is their purple?!

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Re: No more fighting Sioux

Post by Woodless! on Thu Feb 09, 2012 7:18 pm

DD, while I would love to take credit for that shot, I cannot. That was a stock photo from marketing, probably titled 'fans excited about having cotton projectiles thrown at them'

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Re: No more fighting Sioux

Post by blacksheep on Fri Feb 10, 2012 12:09 pm

I should have read the back of my ticket - "You consent to the use of your image without payment for media, commercials or publicity use."

Here I thought I was going to get a royalty check in the mail. Very Happy

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Re: No more fighting Sioux

Post by W W Winkie on Fri Feb 10, 2012 12:20 pm

DoubleDipper wrote:OMG, did anyone else recognize these Pilots fans cheering UND's decision to keep the Fighting Sioux name?



Image courtesy of the UP Alumni office (Although I don't know why they would feature the guy in the dark shirt). Razz


Go Fighting Sioux

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