MLS Soccer Academies: Death of men's college soccer?

Page 1 of 2 1, 2  Next

View previous topic View next topic Go down

MLS Soccer Academies: Death of men's college soccer?

Post by DaTruRochin on Mon May 30, 2011 12:42 pm

A very interesting question indeed. It makes perfect sense, especially when competing with international counterparts being coached under the same professional system starting at the age of 12 or 13, the college game will take a huge hit. You gotta wonder if this progress and the level of talent available drops, will soccer programs move away from scholarship level to club soccer?

http://espn.go.com/sports/soccer/news/_/id/6520002/mls-academies-kill-college-game-soccer

DaTruRochin
Administrator
Administrator

Number of posts : 3576
Location : Boston, MA
Registration date : 2007-05-01

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: MLS Soccer Academies: Death of men's college soccer?

Post by Geezaldinho on Mon May 30, 2011 2:26 pm

Well, the academies might siphon off players who have little interest in college and talent enough to go pro, but I think there will always be a place for college ball just as there is for baseball.

The college game might have to change, though.

I remember 15 years ago Clive complained in an article that the NCAA just didn't allow enough practice and playing time, and the two games In a weekend format hurt players. I think if the college game is to survive in the long run, they will have to go year round.

But keep in mind that there are more college programs than there have ever been, so there is a little chicken little talk going on here. People are confusing college ball with minor league soccer. They aren't the same. What might happen is that college programs go PDA, like BYU DID.


Last edited by Purplegeezer on Mon May 30, 2011 3:40 pm; edited 1 time in total

Geezaldinho
Pilot Nation Legend
Pilot Nation Legend

Number of posts : 10316
Location : Hopefully, having a Malbec on the square in Cafayate, AR
Registration date : 2007-04-28

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: MLS Soccer Academies: Death of men's college soccer?

Post by DaTruRochin on Mon May 30, 2011 3:27 pm

And, if I'm not mistaken, UO has fielded a club team as well on the men's side for a number of years... (And yes, as you would suspect, they are likely the best outfitted club side in the entire country)


DaTruRochin
Administrator
Administrator

Number of posts : 3576
Location : Boston, MA
Registration date : 2007-05-01

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: MLS Soccer Academies: Death of men's college soccer?

Post by PurplePrideTrumpet on Mon May 30, 2011 5:54 pm

Has MiLB killed college baseball?

As the Geezer says, there will be only 20 MLS academies at most. Where do the rest of the kids go? I promise you, even the smallest college program is more stable and has more resources than some of these PDL or USL Pro clubs.

PurplePrideTrumpet
All-American
All-American

Number of posts : 2880
Age : 35
Location : Section 18A, Row 5
Registration date : 2007-11-24

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: MLS Soccer Academies: Death of men's college soccer?

Post by Geezaldinho on Mon May 30, 2011 6:13 pm

At least we won't have the one and done charade basketball has. And since only one out of every 20 or so academy players will make it to the pro's, we might get better players in college that the club programs now provide.

Competition is good.

Geezaldinho
Pilot Nation Legend
Pilot Nation Legend

Number of posts : 10316
Location : Hopefully, having a Malbec on the square in Cafayate, AR
Registration date : 2007-04-28

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: MLS Soccer Academies: Death of men's college soccer?

Post by DaTruRochin on Mon May 30, 2011 6:16 pm

I suppose the biggest change will be college will no longer see elite players pass through its ranks. There are still plenty of kids wanting to play youth soccer (and perhaps progress to college), the better players will just be siphoned off sooner...

DaTruRochin
Administrator
Administrator

Number of posts : 3576
Location : Boston, MA
Registration date : 2007-05-01

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: MLS Soccer Academies: Death of men's college soccer?

Post by Geezaldinho on Mon May 30, 2011 6:19 pm

There will still be plenty of parents who will insist that an education comes first.

Louis Robles and Collen Warner are cases in point.

Geezaldinho
Pilot Nation Legend
Pilot Nation Legend

Number of posts : 10316
Location : Hopefully, having a Malbec on the square in Cafayate, AR
Registration date : 2007-04-28

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: MLS Soccer Academies: Death of men's college soccer?

Post by DaTruRochin on Mon May 30, 2011 6:22 pm

Purplegeezer wrote:There will still be plenty of parents who will insist that an education comes first.

Hahaha, that definitely wasn't readily apparent during my time on the bluff...

DaTruRochin
Administrator
Administrator

Number of posts : 3576
Location : Boston, MA
Registration date : 2007-05-01

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: MLS Soccer Academies: Death of men's college soccer?

Post by PurplePrideTrumpet on Mon May 30, 2011 7:00 pm

DaTruRochin wrote:
Purplegeezer wrote:There will still be plenty of parents who will insist that an education comes first.

Hahaha, that definitely wasn't readily apparent during my time on the bluff...
"Why spend energy walking to lunch when you can drive?" doesn't qualify as a life lesson to you?

PurplePrideTrumpet
All-American
All-American

Number of posts : 2880
Age : 35
Location : Section 18A, Row 5
Registration date : 2007-11-24

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: MLS Soccer Academies: Death of men's college soccer?

Post by onetouchfutbol on Mon Jun 13, 2011 9:01 am

Yeah, I donīt see this as the death of college soccer at all, and I have no idea of how youīre definining "death." Yes, the academies will strengthen US soccer, and itīs probably inevitable that more of the players will be drafted. But, there are some points that should be pointed out:

1) The players in the acadamies have no life beyond soccer. Thatīs not for everyone.
2) If you want to have a backup plan or are thinking about coaching, the education of college is probably a better road to take.
3) Beyond scouts for MLS teams, who watches the games of the acadamies...or even MLS reserve games for that matter?
4) Academic scholarships give players an immediate reward for their athletic abilities, and the cost of an education is not going to go down anytime soon.

onetouchfutbol
All-American
All-American

Number of posts : 2203
Age : 45
Location : Seattle, WA
Registration date : 2008-10-05

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: MLS Soccer Academies: Death of men's college soccer?

Post by DaTruRochin on Mon Jun 13, 2011 9:07 am

I suppose the main supposition of the article is the best American players are no long going to play the college game. It still might exist for the second and third level players, but the stars won't see the NCAA pitch...

And as far as Reserve League games go, well they might not get much attention now, but that's because this is the first year they have had them in the last 5. In theory they should go a long way toward developing talent in MLS because players will always be playing inter-squad matches, even if not for the first team. Also with the expansion of the league and more games per team, you will need all the depth you can get. And you better believe that as soon as academies start being more established and whatnot, scouts will be all over them internationally.

DaTruRochin
Administrator
Administrator

Number of posts : 3576
Location : Boston, MA
Registration date : 2007-05-01

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: MLS Soccer Academies: Death of men's college soccer?

Post by Geezaldinho on Mon Jun 13, 2011 9:24 am

DaTruRochin wrote:I suppose the main supposition of the article is the best American players are no long going to play the college game. It still might exist for the second and third level players, but the stars won't see the NCAA pitch...

And as far as Reserve League games go, well they might not get much attention now, but that's because this is the first year they have had them in the last 5. In theory they should go a long way toward developing talent in MLS because players will always be playing inter-squad matches, even if not for the first team. Also with the expansion of the league and more games per team, you will need all the depth you can get. And you better believe that as soon as academies start being more established and whatnot, scouts will be all over them internationally.

Well, if you want to play in front of a crowd, reserve games aren't the path.

I've watched them in Argentina and Spain with only a few hundred other folks. The timbers reserves actually play to larger crowds. Soccer starved fans here, I guess.

Geezaldinho
Pilot Nation Legend
Pilot Nation Legend

Number of posts : 10316
Location : Hopefully, having a Malbec on the square in Cafayate, AR
Registration date : 2007-04-28

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: MLS Soccer Academies: Death of men's college soccer?

Post by DaTruRochin on Mon Jun 13, 2011 9:30 am

Hahha, well there isn't really much else going on sports wise in the summer.... But I guess at least you are getting paid if you are in reserve games??

DaTruRochin
Administrator
Administrator

Number of posts : 3576
Location : Boston, MA
Registration date : 2007-05-01

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: MLS Soccer Academies: Death of men's college soccer?

Post by Geezaldinho on Mon Jun 13, 2011 9:37 am

I notice the reserves talk about riding bicycles to practice. I'm pretty sure none is bitching about their Lexus repair costs.

First year starters in the league ( Al-Hassan, for instance) are making under 35K)

Geezaldinho
Pilot Nation Legend
Pilot Nation Legend

Number of posts : 10316
Location : Hopefully, having a Malbec on the square in Cafayate, AR
Registration date : 2007-04-28

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: MLS Soccer Academies: Death of men's college soccer?

Post by DaTruRochin on Mon Jun 13, 2011 10:08 am

Hahaha I have no pity for anyone getting paid $35K to play a game. Get it, no pity... I should patent that.

Anyway the RL is for development under the eyes of club coaches, and a place to prove your mettle before stepping in front of the big(ger) crowds.... And besides if you want to make boat loads money as an athlete in the states and you've chosen soccer? You might want to fire your financial adviser.

DaTruRochin
Administrator
Administrator

Number of posts : 3576
Location : Boston, MA
Registration date : 2007-05-01

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: MLS Soccer Academies: Death of men's college soccer?

Post by Geezaldinho on Mon Jun 13, 2011 10:15 am

DaTruRochin wrote:Hahaha I have no pity for anyone getting paid $35K to play a game. Get it, no pity... I should patent that.

Anyway the RL is for development under the eyes of club coaches, and a place to prove your mettle before stepping in front of the big(ger) crowds.... And besides if you want to make boat loads money as an athlete in the states and you've chosen soccer? You might want to fire your financial adviser.


Umm...

Not 35k a GAME..... That's annual salary, though I see they now list him in the 60-70K range.

http://www.mlsplayers.org/files/May%201,%202011%20Salary%20Information%20-%20By%20Club.pdf

Geezaldinho
Pilot Nation Legend
Pilot Nation Legend

Number of posts : 10316
Location : Hopefully, having a Malbec on the square in Cafayate, AR
Registration date : 2007-04-28

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: MLS Soccer Academies: Death of men's college soccer?

Post by DaTruRochin on Mon Jun 13, 2011 10:29 am

Oh I know I meant play a game as in the game itself not an individual contest. They are getting paid money to kick a ball around for 9 months a year, it may not be the inflated NBA salary, but I can think of WAY worse things to get paid to do....

Aside: Haha and I've seen people getting paid WAY less than that driving around in a Lexus, just drive around Gresham for a while....

DaTruRochin
Administrator
Administrator

Number of posts : 3576
Location : Boston, MA
Registration date : 2007-05-01

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: MLS Soccer Academies: Death of men's college soccer?

Post by onetouchfutbol on Mon Jun 13, 2011 11:22 am

DaTruRochin wrote:Hahaha I have no pity for anyone getting paid $35K to play a game. Get it, no pity... I should patent that.

Anyway the RL is for development under the eyes of club coaches, and a place to prove your mettle before stepping in front of the big(ger) crowds.... And besides if you want to make boat loads money as an athlete in the states and you've chosen soccer? You might want to fire your financial adviser.

There obviously wonīt be boat loads of money, but, I personally think that an academic scholarship ends up being more financial value in the end. I also think there are just too many people who wonīt want to miss out on the college experience and will avoid the acadamies. Being at a soccer acadamy is probably (Iīm not speaking from experience.) a rather isolating experience, and some of the kids there have been pressured into doing sports by their parents as well. Not to mention the far superior access to the b word (beer) that college has to offer...among other things. Now, if Pliny becomes the sponsor of one of the academies this all could change...

onetouchfutbol
All-American
All-American

Number of posts : 2203
Age : 45
Location : Seattle, WA
Registration date : 2008-10-05

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: MLS Soccer Academies: Death of men's college soccer?

Post by DaTruRochin on Mon Jun 13, 2011 12:15 pm

A beer company sponsoring 14 year olds would be quite the feat.... The main reason for academies is it is the way every other country in the world does it, recognizing talent early and developing it with consistent high level coaching. Players in the youth system today jump around so much they never get the consistency their S American, Euro, etc counterparts receive... I mean as of now the top college players leave after their Fresh. or Soph years anyway, why jump around when you could stay under the same high level coaching umbrella for an early age (Not every school has a Clive/Garrett level manager)? And no it isn't for everyone, but look at players who probably would have left early from UP recently: Pearce, Jaqua, Casey... All probably would have been academy players if it were an option for them. (I remember FB posts from players while I was enrolled and lets just say they weren't exactly jumping for joy about the benefits of a college degree...)

There will always be a place for the player that wants a college experience, but for the serious athlete ready to jump straight into the professional ranks an academy is the best option to really foster those goals. And until that system takes place, the US game will always be a step behind.


DaTruRochin
Administrator
Administrator

Number of posts : 3576
Location : Boston, MA
Registration date : 2007-05-01

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: MLS Soccer Academies: Death of men's college soccer?

Post by Geezaldinho on Mon Jun 13, 2011 1:26 pm

When I played Lacrosse as a kid, the team was sponsored by a pub. Very Happy

But when you think about academies connected to clubs, you have to examine the abuses in other countries, as well. Education is pretty sketchy and most kids wash out. For every Tevez or Messi who gets sold overseas, there are a couple hundred washouts who don't have much to show for it.

I Just don't think parents in this country would put up with that.

Geezaldinho
Pilot Nation Legend
Pilot Nation Legend

Number of posts : 10316
Location : Hopefully, having a Malbec on the square in Cafayate, AR
Registration date : 2007-04-28

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: MLS Soccer Academies: Death of men's college soccer?

Post by PurplePrideTrumpet on Mon Jun 13, 2011 1:36 pm

DaTruRochin wrote:
There will always be a place for the player that wants a college experience, but for the serious athlete ready to jump straight into the professional ranks an academy is the best option to really foster those goals. And until that system takes place, the US game will always be a step behind.

Some places may be taking the next step. There's this news from Columbus last week: The Crew has told their academy players and their parents that the academy season is going to become longer and therefore they won't be able to play for their high schools. Some parents are up in arms over this but I think this was bound to happen. The rest of the world keeps young players in one system almost year round and the US has to do it to keep up.

True story: The Little League next to the one I played in once had a team sponsored by a pawn shop. Not even joking. Closest thing I've seen to a real life Chico's Bail Bonds ("Let Freedom Ring")/Bad News Bears scenario.

PurplePrideTrumpet
All-American
All-American

Number of posts : 2880
Age : 35
Location : Section 18A, Row 5
Registration date : 2007-11-24

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: MLS Soccer Academies: Death of men's college soccer?

Post by DaTruRochin on Mon Jun 13, 2011 4:11 pm

Purplegeezer wrote:
But when you think about academies connected to clubs, you have to examine the abuses in other countries, as well. Education is pretty sketchy and most kids wash out. For every Tevez or Messi who gets sold overseas, there are a couple hundred washouts who don't have much to show for it.

Very good point, and there's a reason why pro soccer players aren't exactly regarded as the most cerebral of human beings (I mean aside from the using the head as a bludgeon aspect of the game)... I had a co-worker from Bulgaria whose son went the pro soccer route as a boy, did really well and had Hristo Stoichkov as a coach (Yes, THAT Hristo Stoichkov). Things were going well until the dreaded knee blowout and all those years of training and very little education left him at a total loss. He ended up moving here and becoming a HS coach, but the promise of riches never came... Sad really.

But as for "parents allowing it" uhhhhh it seems to me that pretty much happens here already with basketball and football, we don't exactly have moral superiority with regard to that stance...

Oh yeah, and in response to reserve players "riding bikes to work", I give you this: Pretty sure Marcus Hanneman makes more thank 35K a year....

DaTruRochin
Administrator
Administrator

Number of posts : 3576
Location : Boston, MA
Registration date : 2007-05-01

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: MLS Soccer Academies: Death of men's college soccer?

Post by Geezaldinho on Mon Jun 13, 2011 5:11 pm

I've talked to some of those guys who didnt make it to the top tier.

Last summer i had my fireplace Chimney rebuilt and my House painted. The crew that did it were from Latin America, as many construction workers working around here are.

It was during the World Cup, so as you can imagine they were a little distracted and I brought a TV out on the deck so they could catch highlights of their National teams. We got to talking and I asked them if any had played when they were younger. Two were on National teams (Panama and Costa Rica) several were on reserve teams in Mexico and a couple had made the first squads for a little while. They play every weekend and they all agreed the old guy from Panama was the best "better than most MLS players still" He was in his 50's and about 5' tall.


They all agreed that while futbol was fun when they were younger, it wasn't a career, and they wished they had better educations so they didn't have to work so hard.

Geezaldinho
Pilot Nation Legend
Pilot Nation Legend

Number of posts : 10316
Location : Hopefully, having a Malbec on the square in Cafayate, AR
Registration date : 2007-04-28

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: MLS Soccer Academies: Death of men's college soccer?

Post by DaTruRochin on Mon Jun 13, 2011 6:14 pm

Purplegeezer wrote:They all agreed that while futbol was fun when they were younger, it wasn't a career, and they wished they had better educations so they didn't have to work so hard.

Tis a fair point. One thing I do like that MLS does is providing continuing education money for the top players who leave college early through the Gen Adidas project (Formerly known as Project 40) It only applies to 10-15 guys a year, but lets the players ready to go jump to the pros while still providing them with the funds to go back to school in the future. I've also heard that ideally with the academies they would like to get a 2 pronged approach where the players who want to go pro straight away (and are ready for it) can do so, and at the same time the next tier down (or the players whose parents insist on an education) can still receive quality instruction that will eventually filter into a collegiate soccer career. I suppose the biggest challenge is figuring out who is ready for what and not leading players into situations they aren't ready for. (Which will require a ton of scrupulous oversight and positive guidance for the young player.)

DaTruRochin
Administrator
Administrator

Number of posts : 3576
Location : Boston, MA
Registration date : 2007-05-01

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: MLS Soccer Academies: Death of men's college soccer?

Post by onetouchfutbol on Wed Jun 22, 2011 9:09 am

Purplegeezer wrote:
DaTruRochin wrote:I suppose the main supposition of the article is the best American players are no long going to play the college game. It still might exist for the second and third level players, but the stars won't see the NCAA pitch...

And as far as Reserve League games go, well they might not get much attention now, but that's because this is the first year they have had them in the last 5. In theory they should go a long way toward developing talent in MLS because players will always be playing inter-squad matches, even if not for the first team. Also with the expansion of the league and more games per team, you will need all the depth you can get. And you better believe that as soon as academies start being more established and whatnot, scouts will be all over them internationally.

Well, if you want to play in front of a crowd, reserve games aren't the path.

I've watched them in Argentina and Spain with only a few hundred other folks. The timbers reserves actually play to larger crowds. Soccer starved fans here, I guess.

Yep... but, ocho cinco isnīt doing it for the fans now, is he? Heīs doing it for the love of the game.

onetouchfutbol
All-American
All-American

Number of posts : 2203
Age : 45
Location : Seattle, WA
Registration date : 2008-10-05

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Page 1 of 2 1, 2  Next

View previous topic View next topic Back to top


 
Permissions in this forum:
You cannot reply to topics in this forum