Should the men's tourney include more teams? (Poll)

View previous topic View next topic Go down

Should the men's tournament include more teams?

70% 70% 
[ 7 ]
20% 20% 
[ 2 ]
10% 10% 
[ 1 ]
 
Total Votes : 10

Should the men's tourney include more teams? (Poll)

Post by onetouchfutbol on Wed Nov 17, 2010 8:40 pm

Here's a copy of the bracket to check out the teams that received byes this year...

http://www.ncaa.com/brackets/2010/ncaa_bracket_DI_soccer_men.html

onetouchfutbol
All-American
All-American

Number of posts : 2203
Age : 45
Location : Seattle, WA
Registration date : 2008-10-05

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: Should the men's tourney include more teams? (Poll)

Post by onetouchfutbol on Thu Nov 18, 2010 7:09 pm

Anyone else have an opinion? This post has a lot of views, but, only 3 votes...

onetouchfutbol
All-American
All-American

Number of posts : 2203
Age : 45
Location : Seattle, WA
Registration date : 2008-10-05

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: Should the men's tourney include more teams? (Poll)

Post by Geezaldinho on Sun Dec 05, 2010 6:39 pm

Hmm, i just noticed this, and I don't remember it ever showing up as a new post.

I have no real opinion. a couple years ago I read a guideline that NCAA tournaments should factor in about 1/5 or 1/6 the number of teams that play a sport for tournaments . there are more women's teams than men's teams, and that's why the men have a 48 team field, when the UP women first became eligible, I think there were only maybe 40-60 NCAA women's soccer teams, now there are over 325.

Even Men's basketball follows the guideline. that's why the field for that sport just went up to 68 teams.

It's all dollar driven. The NCAA guards its March Madness TV money closely (it funds basically all tournaments). the only way you will see more teams is if more men's teams participate in the sport or if somehow it can pay its own way.

Geezaldinho
Pilot Nation Legend
Pilot Nation Legend

Number of posts : 10315
Location : Hopefully, having a Malbec on the square in Cafayate, AR
Registration date : 2007-04-28

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: Should the men's tourney include more teams? (Poll)

Post by UPSoccerFanatic on Mon Dec 06, 2010 10:00 am

The governing NCAA Bylaw is 31.3.1, Size of Championship Fields, which states:

"The size of all NCAA championship fields shall be established by the Management Council to provide for efficient management of the events, adequate NCAA championship opportunities relative to the nationwide quality of competition and sound economic administration of the financial resources of the Association and its championships."

I have seen what I believe are annual NCAA reports on the numbers of participants in the different championships with ratios of numbers of participants in relation to numbers of schools sponsoring particular sports. I believe the Geez is correct that the NCAA tries to maintain a common ratio across the different sports.

For the 2010 soccer season, there are 322 Division I women's teams and 204 DI men's teams. For the women, with a 64-team bracket, this means there is one bracket position for every 5.03 teams. Perhaps the Geez is correct that the ratio the NCAA uses for the "ideal" number of participants in the championship is 1 participant for every 5 teams.

With the men having a 48-team bracket, there is one bracket position for every 4.25 teams. If the ratio were one position for every 5 teams, the men would have only a 41-team bracket. I assume the reason for the 48 team bracket is that it allows a logical placement of teams related to the way single elimination tournament brackets work.

With this as context, I doubt there is any significant chance of the NCAA increasing the size of the men's bracket. It would be unfair in relation to the opportunity to participate that the NCAA provides to women. Further, if Title IX applies to the NCAA -- even if only indirectly through its application to the NCAA's member institutions -- then there likely would be legal problems with providing an equal sized bracket for men and women when there are so fewer men's teams. I think limiting the size of the men's field is the correct thing to do. When the men have a lot more schools sponsoring soccer, then will be the time to look at expanding the field.

UPSoccerFanatic
All-WCC
All-WCC

Number of posts : 1701
Age : 71
Location : Portland, Oregon
Registration date : 2007-10-31

View user profile http://sites.google.com/site/rpifordivisioniwomenssoccer/

Back to top Go down

Re: Should the men's tourney include more teams? (Poll)

Post by Geezaldinho on Mon Dec 06, 2010 3:33 pm

I can't find the guideline, probably because I think I saw it around the time the women's field went from 32 to 64 ( they skipped 48, didn't they? )

Anyway it was when women's soccer made a jump.

What I remember is that they start thinking about increases when the number gets near 1/6, and the goal is around 1/5. Men's soccer might be near the point at which they start discussing making a change, considering the 204 number. But it's not set in stone. I think the Women jumped at around 260 or so. Has there been a sport that had a 56 team tournament?

And yes, having logical brackets is a big part of the process, as is where most of the schools that play a particular sport are. Sometimes they will go regional if they are trying to promote a sport.
As part of that, Lacrosse mandated Western schools in the tournament even when hardly any Western schools played the sport or were very good. ( by Western, I mean West of the Pennsylvania state line.) They might even have mandated tournament games in the West to get people interested. I though at the time it was a great move, The sport of my youth is really taking off. The Men's D1 final drew 55k last year in the Baltimore Raven's Stadium. It was a great scene. Even the D3 final drew about 35k ( My old school was in the finals in Boston two years ago)



Geezaldinho
Pilot Nation Legend
Pilot Nation Legend

Number of posts : 10315
Location : Hopefully, having a Malbec on the square in Cafayate, AR
Registration date : 2007-04-28

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: Should the men's tourney include more teams? (Poll)

Post by onetouchfutbol on Tue Dec 07, 2010 6:35 pm

Very interesting. Thanks. I had no idea that the women's teams outnumbered the mens... I guess if 64/204 teams went to the tourney that would be about 31% of the teams. Since I'm ignorant of the process, how exactly are NCAA Bylaws like these changed? Who is a part of the conversation? Athletic Directors?

onetouchfutbol
All-American
All-American

Number of posts : 2203
Age : 45
Location : Seattle, WA
Registration date : 2008-10-05

View user profile

Back to top Go down

View previous topic View next topic Back to top


 
Permissions in this forum:
You cannot reply to topics in this forum