USF match ...

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Re: USF match ...

Post by Geezaldinho on Sun Oct 31, 2010 7:43 pm

santa pilot wrote:It was especially nice to get to see Kendra again and without the knee brace.

I thought the officiating was terrible. This is at least the second time that this center ref has been BAD.

it may have been bad, but it wasn't the same ref. But both of the last two refs looked like they aren't ready to keep up with the pace of D1 ball.

it was a bit surprising, since she is thought well enough to be appointed to the SOCAL region director of the youth beach and indoor games.

http://www.calsouth.com/en/ref-news/archive/

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Re: USF match ...

Post by SoreKnees on Sun Oct 31, 2010 8:29 pm

At least one of the calls that the referee made that attracted the ire of the Pilot faithful was spot on. In the first half, a Pilot player (Dani, I think) was pulled down inside the penalty arc, but the ball dropped straight to a teammate (Kendall?) about 3 yards away, who had a clear shot on goal but shot off target.

In that case, playing the advantage is the appropriate call. (How would we have felt if Kendall had put the ball in the net only to have the referee call it back...) The Pilots got their shot on the advantage and, when they were not able to convert, it's too late to bring the ball back for the free kick.

She could have given a caution to the USF player at the next stoppage if she felt that the foul justified it, but she chose not to do so. She also should have made it clear verbally and by hand signal that she was allowing the Pilots to play the advantage, but it was a bang-bang play and she may not have had time.

There were a couple of other call that I disagreed with from the stands, but we always have to remember that a good referee is a lot closer to the play than we are and almost always has a different angle of view. They see things that we in the stands don't see (and sometimes they can't see things that we can see).

All in all, I thought the crew did a pretty good job today.

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Re: USF match ...

Post by slick on Sun Oct 31, 2010 8:56 pm

"Hats off" to the SENIORS and to all the Lady Pilots today!

Can't wait to see them in action in Moraga versus the Gaels on Saturday, let's get a huge purple-clad crowd at SMC for the regular season finale.

Go Pilots!

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Re: USF match ...

Post by ejjqb on Sun Oct 31, 2010 9:20 pm

Just watched highlights of the game on KGW Sports Sunday and it confirmed what I saw at the game. Kendall's goal was well hit with the right foot but Micaela's tenacity to stay with the ball after falling down while challenged in the box really made the play. If that 's any indication of her potential, watch out. She finally made the feed from the endline that has been missing so much and she did it all on her own. What a great play from the frosh.

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Re: USF match ...

Post by Geezaldinho on Sun Oct 31, 2010 9:21 pm

SoreKnees wrote:At least one of the calls that the referee made that attracted the ire of the Pilot faithful was spot on. In the first half, a Pilot player (Dani, I think) was pulled down inside the penalty arc, but the ball dropped straight to a teammate (Kendall?) about 3 yards away, who had a clear shot on goal but shot off target.

In that case, playing the advantage is the appropriate call. (How would we have felt if Kendall had put the ball in the net only to have the referee call it back...) The Pilots got their shot on the advantage and, when they were not able to convert, it's too late to bring the ball back for the free kick.

She could have given a caution to the USF player at the next stoppage if she felt that the foul justified it, but she chose not to do so. She also should have made it clear verbally and by hand signal that she was allowing the Pilots to play the advantage, but it was a bang-bang play and she may not have had time.

There were a couple of other call that I disagreed with from the stands, but we always have to remember that a good referee is a lot closer to the play than we are and almost always has a different angle of view. They see things that we in the stands don't see (and sometimes they can't see things that we can see).

All in all, I thought the crew did a pretty good job today.

I don't agree with your assessment. the only way you can justify how the call was handled is if you think there was no foul at all. I don't think anyone who saw the play is prepared to make that defense.

Here is the entire misconduct advantage clause in the NCAA rule book.


5.3.3 The referee’s power of penalizing shall extend to offenses committed
when play has been suspended or when the ball is out of play. The
referee shall, however, refrain from penalizing in cases in which he
or she is satisfied that by doing so an advantage would be given to
the offending team. When the referee observes a foul that is not to be
penalized, the referee shall call out the words “play on” and signal
accordingly to indicate that the foul has been acknowledged. However,
if the advantage does not materialize, the referee shall then blow the
whistle and award a free kick.

OK, from that it would seem that once a ref called advantage it would seem that the opportunity to call the foul was lost with the shot. But I don't think that is the intent of the rule. Nor, apparently does ussoccer think so. In their instructions to referees on the advantage rule, they make it clear that a referee can call the fouls after the next stoppage.


Referees should consider the following circumstances in deciding whether to apply the advantage or stop play:
• The severity of the offense. If the infringement warrants an expulsion, the referee shall stop play and send the player off unless there is a subsequent opportunity to score a goal.
The position where the offense was committed: the closer to the opponent’s goal, the more effective it can be. • The chances of an immediate, dangerous attack on the opponents’ goal.
• The atmosphere of the match. The decision to penalize the original offense must be taken within the next few seconds. If the offense warrants a caution, it shall be issued at the next stoppage. However, unless there is a clear advantage, it is recommended that the referee stops play and cautions the player immediately. If the caution is NOT issued at the next stoppage, it cannot be shown later.

So from that, the only time to stop play is if you decide to send a player off. otherwise, you should call advantage when the ball is in dangerous territory and make the call at the stoppage.

the subsequent play that warranted a yellow wasn't nearly as severe a trip, IMO. By that time, I think even the ref had realized her error. Makup calls are not as obvious as in Basketball, but they do happen in soccer.

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Re: USF match ...

Post by decrink on Sun Oct 31, 2010 9:30 pm

santa pilot wrote:I thought the officiating was terrible. This is at least the second time that this center ref has been BAD. I didn't think Elle was off-sides and the call at the end of the game was off the netting and not the crossbar. It was right in front of me and the ball took a true bounce not the way it would have off net. Nobody could figure what the call might have been.

The offsides was called by the assistant line ref and looked like the correct call as much as I wished it counted. We decided it was a great goal even though it was offside. The first shot deflected to Elli who was offside off at a weird angle but she cracked a cracker!

I'm not sure what you're referring to on your second ref complaint?

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Re: USF match ...

Post by decrink on Sun Oct 31, 2010 9:43 pm

ejjqb wrote:Just watched highlights of the game on KGW Sports Sunday and it confirmed what I saw at the game. Kendall's goal was well hit with the right foot but Micaela's tenacity to stay with the ball after falling down while challenged in the box really made the play. If that 's any indication of her potential, watch out. She finally made the feed from the endline that has been missing so much and she did it all on her own. What a great play from the frosh.

Yep, that was one of Micaela's feistiest plays this season. She popped up so quickly from the tackle to make the cross. I've always liked her "quickness", the ability to get to a ball or move within the first five yards. She may need a few more years to develop the longer range speed. She has definitely arrived at the end of her freshman year with valuable experience. Her runs are getting more productive. Hope she continues to raise her game in the upcoming playoffs.

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Re: USF match ...

Post by gxm on Sun Oct 31, 2010 9:47 pm

santa pilot wrote:Iand the call at the end of the game was off the netting and not the crossbar. It was right in front of me and the ball took a true bounce not the way it would have off net. Nobody could figure what the call might have been.

I also thought that ball hit the crossbar. However, after watching it again on the free video, it must have hit the side bar from the way it bounced back into the field of play. If it had hit the crossbar, the ball would have ended up in front of the goal. The play is at 02:15:15 in the video.

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Re: USF match ...

Post by Geezaldinho on Sun Oct 31, 2010 9:48 pm

decrink wrote:
santa pilot wrote:I thought the officiating was terrible. This is at least the second time that this center ref has been BAD. I didn't think Elle was off-sides and the call at the end of the game was off the netting and not the crossbar. It was right in front of me and the ball took a true bounce not the way it would have off net. Nobody could figure what the call might have been.

The offsides was called by the assistant line ref and looked like the correct call as much as I wished it counted. We decided it was a great goal even though it was offside. The first shot deflected to Elli who was offside off at a weird angle but she cracked a cracker!

I'm not sure what you're referring to on your second ref complaint?

wait a minute. if no other pilot touched the ball there can't be offsides. you are only offsides when a team mate plays the ball.

As long as she wasn't offsides on the first shot, I don't see how she could be on the second unless a team mate played it.
from wikipedia (too lazy to download the rule book again)

offside is judged at the time the ball is touched or played by a team-mate, not when the player receives the ball, it is possible for a player to receive the ball significantly past the second-to-last defender, or even the last defender (typically the goalkeeper).
I was hoping to wait until I saw the replay, though, to see if that was indeed the case.


EDIT: looking at the on demand, Dani passed it back to her, not a defender, so the ref got that one right


Last edited by Geezaldinho on Sun Oct 31, 2010 10:00 pm; edited 2 times in total

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Re: USF match ...

Post by decrink on Sun Oct 31, 2010 9:50 pm

gxm wrote:
santa pilot wrote:Iand the call at the end of the game was off the netting and not the crossbar. It was right in front of me and the ball took a true bounce not the way it would have off net. Nobody could figure what the call might have been.

I also thought that ball hit the crossbar. However, after watching it again on the free video, it must have hit the side bar from the way it bounced back into the field of play. If it had hit the crossbar, the ball would have ended up in front of the goal. The play is at 02:15:15 in the video.

You talking about Haley's left footed shot from the edge of the box after taking the slip pass from Cruz? That missed the goal and hit the outside bar back bar in the side netting.

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Re: USF match ...

Post by gxm on Sun Oct 31, 2010 10:03 pm

decrink wrote:
gxm wrote:
santa pilot wrote:Iand the call at the end of the game was off the netting and not the crossbar. It was right in front of me and the ball took a true bounce not the way it would have off net. Nobody could figure what the call might have been.

I also thought that ball hit the crossbar. However, after watching it again on the free video, it must have hit the side bar from the way it bounced back into the field of play. If it had hit the crossbar, the ball would have ended up in front of the goal. The play is at 02:15:15 in the video.

You talking about Haley's left footed shot from the edge of the box after taking the slip pass from Cruz? That missed the goal and hit the outside bar back bar in the side netting.

Yep, I'd meant to include the player's names Smile

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Re: USF match ...

Post by decrink on Sun Oct 31, 2010 10:06 pm

Geezaldinho wrote:
OK, from that it would seem that once a ref called advantage it would seem that the opportunity to call the foul was lost with the shot. But I don't think that is the intent of the rule. Nor, apparently does ussoccer think so. In their instructions to referees on the advantage rule, they make it clear that a referee can call the fouls after the next stoppage.

I can't quite tell from your quote if you think the ref applied the advantage correctly. It was a bang-bang play and the ball went right to our attacker (I can't even remember who it was now) who took at immediate shot on goal from about 25 yards. It wasn't a great chance but I can't say I ever recall a ball being brought back for a free kick AFTER the result of the play following the foul resulted in a chance at goal. I really don't think the ref had time to call "play on" and although I would have loved to see the free kick awarded dead center from 22 yards, I just can't see it happening after the shot goes on goal, no matter how strong or poor of an attempt it was.

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Re: USF match ...

Post by Geezaldinho on Sun Oct 31, 2010 10:20 pm

Geezaldinho wrote:
offside is judged at the time the ball is touched or played by a team-mate, not when the player receives the ball, it is possible for a player to receive the ball significantly past the second-to-last defender, or even the last defender (typically the goalkeeper).
I was hoping to wait until I saw the replay, though, to see if that was indeed the case.


EDIT: looking at the on demand, Dani passed it back to her, not a defender, so the ref got that one right

Hmm, looking at the video frame by frame, i'm not so sure it was offsides. Here's the frame that's the closest to when Dani releases the ball and Elli is in the shot (just before, she is off screen)



It's Senior day amd she's a senior. there was the keeper and a defender keeping her on and she wuz robbed. Very Happy

at least she got to celebrate.

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Re: USF match ...

Post by gxm on Sun Oct 31, 2010 10:23 pm

Personally, I think the very question of offsides inside the 6 yard box is a failure of soccer as a sport. You are a defender, defend.
That said, I watched the video a half dozen times, and it is a very close call.

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Re: USF match ...

Post by Geezaldinho on Sun Oct 31, 2010 10:59 pm

decrink wrote:
Geezaldinho wrote:
OK, from that it would seem that once a ref called advantage it would seem that the opportunity to call the foul was lost with the shot. But I don't think that is the intent of the rule. Nor, apparently does ussoccer think so. In their instructions to referees on the advantage rule, they make it clear that a referee can call the fouls after the next stoppage.

I can't quite tell from your quote if you think the ref applied the advantage correctly. It was a bang-bang play and the ball went right to our attacker (I can't even remember who it was now) who took at immediate shot on goal from about 25 yards. It wasn't a great chance but I can't say I ever recall a ball being brought back for a free kick AFTER the result of the play following the foul resulted in a chance at goal. I really don't think the ref had time to call "play on" and although I would have loved to see the free kick awarded dead center from 22 yards, I just can't see it happening after the shot goes on goal, no matter how strong or poor of an attempt it was.

well, look at the video yourself, although the ref isn't in the frame during the play, i recal she started to call advantage. I think soreknees acknowledged as much.
(around 56:40)
if that isn't a foul, nothing is. linnman reflexively says "ew, harsh foul"

In fact, it looks like the ref awards the foul to USF, and the keeper takes the kick from the point at which daFox lay moaning.

on replay, it looks like a worse call than I remember live, bordering on bizarre.

The yellow comes out on a trip at 59:40 or so. though Kendall goes down hard, the foul wasn't as harsh, IMO, yet it deserved the card.

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Re: USF match ...

Post by Geezaldinho on Mon Nov 01, 2010 2:01 am

Decrink appears to be right on the offsides call, though I'm with him and Elli in wishing she wasn't off.





Pretty close, though.

But the Senior Day highlights are already up. (that's a frame from it)


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Re: USF match ...

Post by fan from afar on Mon Nov 01, 2010 11:20 am

I just watched the highlights. I didn't really see live on the computer what a great shot Kendall's goal was. That type of one touch shot running straight on to a bouncing ball almost always goes over the goal, and with her off foot. Fantastic effort by Michaela, great shot by Kendall.

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Re: USF match ...

Post by purple haze on Mon Nov 01, 2010 11:12 pm

Good thing we don't have to graduate out of Pilot Nation after 4 years.

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Re: USF match ...

Post by ktinpurple on Tue Nov 02, 2010 9:17 am

Here is Dani getting taken down. Clearly a foul.





The ball stayed there for a second as everyone assumed a call was coming but never did.



Clearly she was in a lot of pain and I can see why. The player went straight for her knee. The ref proceeded to send it back for a goal kick which was strange.

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Re: USF match ...

Post by purple haze on Tue Nov 02, 2010 6:43 pm

Yeah, that no-call was a crime against soccer.

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Re: USF match ...

Post by decrink on Thu Nov 04, 2010 9:38 pm

purple haze wrote:Yeah, that no-call was a crime against soccer.

Didn't we figure it was an advantage call?

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Re: USF match ...

Post by Geezaldinho on Thu Nov 04, 2010 9:50 pm

decrink wrote:
purple haze wrote:Yeah, that no-call was a crime against soccer.

Didn't we figure it was an advantage call?

replays don't show any advantage call, and it went by a lot quicker than we may have at first thought.

The ref was a long way behind the play, so it's pretty hard to confirm anything about that. she didn't enter the video until she finally stopped play to see how badly Dani was hurt. by then, the keeper had the ball in her possession at about the 12 yard spot.

All of which doesn't explain why the keeper got a free kick at the top of the arc at about the spot Dani went down on the restart.

the only possibility by rule that I can think of is that UP got called for a foul.

bottom line- an incompetent ref who got no help from her AR's

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Re: USF match ...

Post by fozziewozzie on Thu Nov 04, 2010 11:51 pm

Late as usual,
1st, I didnt think Elli's 'goal' was off sides at the time. but the video evidence is more than conclusive. Happenstancely, I happen to be sitting near my favorite U of P goalie of all time, Kelsey Davis an she said Ellie's goal was 'sick' before we knew it wasnt really a goal.
As for a posting recently as to who the former Pilots seen in the last couple of weeks I've seen, Angie [nee Woznuk] Kerr, Kelsey Davis, Rebecca Meierbechtol an Michelle Sciifo. Kelsey actually made a save in the stands of a ball that was kick out of bounds. She still has the hands!!
An I realize this is way out there, but did anyone other than me notice that USF team didnt have matching shoes? Their uni's were supplied by NIKE, but their shoes were mismash. One player's cleats were actually held together by athletic tape wrapped around the soles!! What an embarassment for NIKE!!!


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Re: USF match ...

Post by Geezaldinho on Fri Nov 05, 2010 12:03 am

fozziewozzie wrote:Late as usual,
1st, I didnt think Elli's 'goal' was off sides at the time. but the video evidence is more than conclusive. Happenstancely, I happen to be sitting near my favorite U of P goalie of all time, Kelsey Davis an she said Ellie's goal was 'sick' before we knew it wasnt really a goal.
As for a posting recently as to who the former Pilots seen in the last couple of weeks I've seen, Angie [nee Woznuk] Kerr, Kelsey Davis, Rebecca Meierbechtol an Michelle Sciifo. Kelsey actually made a save in the stands of a ball that was kick out of bounds. She still has the hands!!
An I realize this is way out there, but did anyone other than me notice that USF team didnt have matching shoes? Their uni's were supplied by NIKE, but their shoes were mismash. One player's cleats were actually held together by athletic tape wrapped around the soles!! What an embarassment for NIKE!!!


Umm... What do Kassi's shoes match?

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Re: USF match ...

Post by A_Fan on Fri Nov 05, 2010 7:41 am

I see Val Henderson at every game, she has a seat not far from mine.

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