WC Play So Far

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Re: WC Play So Far

Post by PurplePrideTrumpet on Sat Jun 19, 2010 3:34 pm

Anelka got sent home for arguing with Domenech at halftime of the Mexico game. Au revoir, Bleus. I would have done it too if it meant I didn't have to deal with that dimwit "coach" anymore.

Australia is tougher than what they showed in the Germany game. Today they played about 70 minutes with 10 men today and held Ghana to a draw.

Meanwhile, Cameroon got eliminated by Denmark in a game that was highly entertaining whether or not you supported either team. Slightly shaky defenses make for great end-to-end action.

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Re: WC Play So Far

Post by onetouchfutbol on Sat Jun 19, 2010 4:20 pm

Australia does have a good goalie and some decent players, however, their defense was playing horrible prior to the game with Ghana today. The 3-1 loss to the USA (pre-WC friendly) and then 4-0 to Germany were two poor back to back performances. I still think that Germany's victory over Australia is no barometer of how good or bad Germany is. I want to see them beat a better team...

Ivory Coast vs. Brazil should be a great game. There'll be a lot of talent on the field. The ref in the US game was bad, however, the US played such a horrible first half. They can't allow any more early goals in the game versus Algeria...

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Re: WC Play So Far

Post by up7587 on Sun Jun 20, 2010 9:35 am

France is in total disarray: LINK

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Re: WC Play So Far

Post by Geezaldinho on Sun Jun 20, 2010 10:08 am

England isn't far behind France, with players arguing with their coach that Joe Cole should replace Gerrard in the middle. Apparently there was a shouting match at halftime of their last game, too. It was hushed up better, though.

I was just looking at the "penalty" that lead to italy's PK in the New Zealand game. A full layout simulation IMO, and the ref fell for it.

Jorge Larrionda is starting to look like the cream of this Cup's crews. After a pretty good first round, the ref corps has settled back to its level.


Last edited by Geezaldinho on Sun Jun 20, 2010 10:10 am; edited 1 time in total

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Re: WC Play So Far

Post by PurplePrideTrumpet on Sun Jun 20, 2010 10:09 am

up7587 wrote:France is in total disarray: LINK
That team has had a completely toxic atmosphere around it since at least Euro 2008. It's all just coming to the surface now.

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Re: WC Play So Far

Post by PurplePrideTrumpet on Sun Jun 20, 2010 10:18 am

Geezaldinho wrote:
I was just looking at the "penalty" that lead to italy's PK in the New Zealand game. A full layout simulation IMO, and the ref fell for it.

Jorge Larrionda is starting to look like the crEam of this Cup's crews. After a pretty good first round, the ref corps has settled back to its level.
He was getting his shirt held, but only went down after the defender let go.

New Zealand is still more than happy to get a result out of it. They're going to leave with more fans than they came with.

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Re: WC Play So Far

Post by Geezaldinho on Sun Jun 20, 2010 12:00 pm

PurplePrideTrumpet wrote:
Geezaldinho wrote:
I was just looking at the "penalty" that lead to italy's PK in the New Zealand game. A full layout simulation IMO, and the ref fell for it.

Jorge Larrionda is starting to look like the crEam of this Cup's crews. After a pretty good first round, the ref corps has settled back to its level.
He was getting his shirt held, but only went down after the defender let go.

New Zealand is still more than happy to get a result out of it. They're going to leave with more fans than they came with.


It's not a penalty to let go of a player Very Happy if refs called that, the game would be a PK kick contest.

I'll note that despite rumors that referee Koman Coulibaly would be suspended pending an expedited review of his performance, he was the fourth official in the match.

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Re: WC Play So Far

Post by Geezaldinho on Sun Jun 20, 2010 12:40 pm

And it continues. Brazil goes up on CIV 2-0 on a goal by Luis Fabiano that included a hand ball to bring the ball to his feet and a possible hand ball on the touch before it.

Then a replay shows the ref joking with Fabiano with obvious signs he knew Fabiano did it, even pointing to his own body for emphasis to show he saw it and fabiano protesting "no" and the ref nodding yes.


Last edited by Geezaldinho on Sun Jun 20, 2010 12:59 pm; edited 4 times in total

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Re: WC Play So Far

Post by up7587 on Sun Jun 20, 2010 12:44 pm

TV just confirmed that there were two handballs. Embarassed

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Re: WC Play So Far

Post by PurplePrideTrumpet on Sun Jun 20, 2010 1:18 pm

Geezer--

I agree, not holding is usually not a foul. Very Happy

Something interesting about performance reviews: I read Graham Poll's memoir last year (soccer fans know him as the guy who rewrote the rule about how many cautions it takes to be sent off) and in it he talks about how his games were reviewed one or two days afterward, in front of most of or all the other referees in the tournament. At the 2002 Cup he missed a crucial decision (an offside I think), and less than a week or so after his review he was told there would be no more games for him. He did, however work as the fourth in a couple later matches.

I would think Coulibaby's observers at FIFA will have already talked to him, or will very soon.

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Re: WC Play So Far

Post by Geezaldinho on Sun Jun 20, 2010 1:19 pm

Wow!

And now a CIV player gets a mild shove from Kaka as he's running into Kaka and does the "I've been shot in the face" act. The ref falls for it.

Second yellow to Kaka and the red.

That Red card HAS to be reversed, even if there is no instant replay.

referee: Stephane Lannoy (France)

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you're right it should

Post by footyfan on Sun Jun 20, 2010 4:33 pm

It was actuaclly a horrible display of diving by both teams..The Kaka red was a ridiculous!! Too bad it was a yellow card (they can't be disputed) even if it's the second yellow resulting in a sending off.

Italy's PK was almost as bad..slight shirt grab and the guys feet fall out from under him and he's falling well after the defender let go..Juxipose that to the mauling several US players received in the penalty box on the disallowed third goal.
If the ref is going to call THAT shirt grab and he's going to try to be consistent about it there would be 50 similar fouls per game.

FIFA MUST get diving under control..Its ruining the beautiful game! Mad

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Re: WC Play So Far

Post by mattywizz on Sun Jun 20, 2010 5:42 pm

At least in Kaka's case, Brasil has clinched a second round position. It shouldn't hurt them too much...a tie with Portugal would get them a group win.

What ever happend to giving out cards for diving? Did FIFA reverse that decision when that dead guy was carded?

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Re: WC Play So Far

Post by Geezaldinho on Sun Jun 20, 2010 7:45 pm

mattywizz wrote:What ever happend to giving out cards for diving? Did FIFA reverse that decision when that dead guy was carded?

I dunno, the Cup started out so well when a ref gave out two yellows in a match. I thought they were going to clamp down.

when they are caught diving, they should be made to wear this for the next year.


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Re: WC Play So Far

Post by Geezaldinho on Sun Jun 20, 2010 8:34 pm

interesting twitter sequence from Grant Wahl
GrantWahl
I'll say it again: I love this sport, but I tire of how often the postgame discussion centers on the officiating.
about 7 hours ago via web

GrantWahl
Kaká may have used elbow (camera angle makes it hard to know for sure), but the fall to the ground was most definitely embellished.
about 7 hours ago via web

GrantWahl
Wow. Kaká sent off for 2nd yellow. Huge drama at end of game. Looks like 2nd yellow was a phantom call. Guess I jinxed the Frenchman.
about 7 hours ago via web
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~


GrantWahl
Odd: replay shows French referee laughing with Luís Fabiano and pointing to his arm after goal. Two clear handballs.
about 8 hours ago via web

GrantWahl
Luís Fabiano just scored another devastating goal. I hope I'm wrong, but I fear no African team will reach Round of 16. Not even Ghana.
about 8 hours ago via web

GrantWahl
Coulibaly aside, the officiating in this #WorldCup has been terrific. Frenchman Lannoy saving some pride for #FRA tonight.
about 8 hours ago via web

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Re: WC Play So Far

Post by Geezaldinho on Sun Jun 20, 2010 8:47 pm

the postgame interviews are interesting
from Soccernet:

Brazil striker Luis Fabiano has admitted that he handled the ball in the build up to his second goal as the Selecao beat Group G rivals Ivory Coast 3-1 in Johannesburg to book their place in the next round.


GettyImages
Robinho celebrates as the Luis Fabiano's shot hits the back of the net
• Photo gallery

Luis Fabiano scored a brace and Elano added another before Didier Drogba netted a consolation goal for the Elephants late on.

The striker, who looped the ball over two defenders before finishing his second goal, said: "It's true, the ball really touched my hand and then my shoulder. But it was involuntary. It was one of the greatest goals I've scored in my career."

Ivory Coast coach Sven Goran Eriksson was livid that that the second goal counted.

"It shouldn't have been allowed," Eriksson said. "They got a goal free. That's a 2-0 goal - that changed everything.

"It's even more difficult if he's allowed to use his hands. Of course it's a handball. It's not once, it's twice."



But the most interesting quote was from DUNGA, the Brazillian coach who was known as a the hardest and most cynical fouler in the game, and who's team is molded in his likeness so they are being called the "Power Rangers".



"There were many fouls committed and all of us, who love football and desire beautiful football, always ask that the beautiful game is controlled.

"We have to know what is good football and what is not. So when the referee allows certain fouls or certain incidents to go unpunished that is not right, as happened today."

And he sarcastically added: "He (Kaka) was fouled and he was punished... he was given a yellow card. So it seems that the player that commits the foul is not the one given the yellow card, which means he can do it at will. I must actually congratulate that Ivory Coast player.


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Re: WC Play So Far

Post by Stonehouse on Sun Jun 20, 2010 9:08 pm

Pathetic.

It's in German, but here's the best video of the incident I could find:



(Kaka's red comes around the 2:30 mark.) Amazingly, it's not only that play that will make you grind your teeth... that whole video shows plays where both teams are flopping, embellishing injuries, writhing in agony at mere bumps. Pathetic really is the only word to describe it. Say what you will about the NFL (I'm not a huge fan myself) but could you imagine if running backs pulled stunts like that every time they were tackled? It would be beyond ludicrous.

I do love soccer and I love the World Cup, but this kind of crap frustrates me to no end. I will grant that the human element of officiating is part of any game, but there's a difference between poor officiating and outright cheating.

International soccer has indulged flopping/acting like this for so long that it has basically allowed cheating to become an entrenched part of the game. It makes me sick and further convinces me that the sport will never catch on in the USA. Not to be all jingoistic, but I just can't envision America ever really embracing a sport that not only allows but practically encourages this type of play-acting.

FIFA needs to stop protecting refs and start doing real post-game reviews of video. It's the only way this problem can ever get fixed.

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Re: WC Play So Far

Post by Geezaldinho on Sun Jun 20, 2010 9:18 pm

.sdrawkcab lla ti teg syawla snamreG esohT

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Re: WC Play So Far

Post by Geezaldinho on Sun Jun 20, 2010 9:58 pm

the Fabiano hand balls makes Maradona's hand of God seem like small stuff. These were not quick or hidden plays, but were right in the open and in pretty slow motion.





and the ref pointing to the arm and laughing :



the whole video sequence is here, but I can't embed it
http://tag11mac.posterous.com/luis-fabiano-commits-2-handballs-and-lies-to


FIFA has a referee interview session scheduled for Monday as a normal part of the World Cup Press opportunities. Coulibaly was expected to get grilled as the highlight of the event, but he may take a back seat to the Frenchman Lannoy.


Last edited by Geezaldinho on Sun Jun 20, 2010 10:17 pm; edited 2 times in total

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Re: WC Play So Far

Post by UPSoccerFanatic on Sun Jun 20, 2010 10:03 pm

Stonehouse says, "FIFA needs to stop protecting refs and start doing real post-game reviews of video. It's the only way this problem can ever get fixed."

I agree. If FIFA finds, after a review, that a player flopped or embellished, then the player should be out for the next game. That would go a long way towards solving the problem.

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Both hands of God?

Post by Geezaldinho on Sun Jun 20, 2010 10:19 pm

I'm sure Youtube will have more tomorrow as new angles pop up, but here's a youtube of the hand ball from a different angle.
You can hear the announcer defending Fabiano, then ..."oooooh".

No laughing ref, though.




Better angles and the laughing ref Here. even though its in Arabic, the announcer is obviously not at all confused.

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Re: WC Play So Far

Post by VillaGorilla on Mon Jun 21, 2010 6:23 am

Stonehouse wrote:International soccer has indulged flopping/acting like this for so long that it has basically allowed cheating to become an entrenched part of the game. It makes me sick and further convinces me that the sport will never catch on in the USA. Not to be all jingoistic, but I just can't envision America ever really embracing a sport that not only allows but practically encourages this type of play-acting.

Have you seen any NBA games lately? This prevalence of "simulation" is hardly reserved for association football.

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Re: WC Play So Far

Post by DaTruRochin on Mon Jun 21, 2010 8:02 am

VillaGorilla wrote:
Have you seen any NBA games lately? This prevalence of "simulation" is hardly reserved for association football.

Yeah, but some might argue said gamesmanship was brought to the league by soccer players, or players that grew up playing a la Vlade Divac, Manu Ginobli, etc. (Although John Stockton and Dennis Rodman don't exactly fit that mold, you could easily argue that the eastern Euros and S. Americans have taken it to the next level)

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Re: WC Play So Far

Post by DaTruRochin on Mon Jun 21, 2010 8:09 am

Masterful skill, or PURE luck... You decide...
http://theoriginalwinger.com/2010-06-21-cristiano-ronaldos-goal-against-north-korea
My favorite part is Ronaldo's sheepish grin afterward realizing just how ridiculous the goal was and having the decency to not celebrate (esp when going up 6-0)


I just hope this thrashing doesn't encourage Kim Jong Ill's reanimated corpse to declare war on Portugal...

(Oh and btw that blog I linked to is a pretty great one, lots of commentary, side stories and every single goal/highlight is posted. They do a great job of covering MLS and world club football as well.)

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Re: WC Play So Far

Post by DaTruRochin on Mon Jun 21, 2010 8:54 am

Aside: just saw a ref issue a yellow to a Chilean player for simulation, methinks Fifa is going to clamp down on this for the rest of the cup seeing that for all the complaining the vuvuzuela and whining about the ball, gamesmanship has been the main cause tainting the outcomes...

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