Drew Wiley Leaving Oregon

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Drew Wiley Leaving Oregon

Post by Stonehouse on Wed Apr 14, 2010 10:14 am

Drew Wiley, a SF from Eugene who just finished his second year at Oregon, is transferring:

http://blog.oregonlive.com/behindducksbeat/2010/04/oregon_basketball_drew_wiley_t.html

I know UP doesn't have a spot open, but he could end up at a WCC school... I think a lot of people would be interested in him. I've seen him a few times and have always thought he had talent.

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Re: Drew Wiley Leaving Oregon

Post by upsailor on Wed Apr 14, 2010 10:38 pm

I know that when Drew was at the small school the Pilots were very interested him but he indicated that it was Oregon after he transferred to Thurston. Unless Gonzaga was after him I would have thought that we might have a chance. Not having a scholarship left, unless someone left the program pretty much kills that.

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Re: Drew Wiley Leaving Oregon

Post by piloted on Thu Apr 15, 2010 1:09 pm

since he has to sit out a year, i guess that would still count as a scholarship and he has to pay his own tuition next year? i.e. we cant allocate him one for 2011-2012.

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Re: Drew Wiley Leaving Oregon

Post by DaTruRochin on Thu Apr 15, 2010 1:30 pm

Pretty much... He's looking at PSU and Boise St. this week according to this:
http://www.registerguard.com/csp/cms/sites/web/sports/24688573-41/wiley-oregon-coach-drew-mike.csp

You gotta wonder what kinds of other effects this drawn out coaching search will have... Kinda embarrassing really...

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Re: Drew Wiley Leaving Oregon

Post by Geezaldinho on Thu Apr 15, 2010 1:31 pm

If he sits out, he can't draw a scholarship anywhere.

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Re: Drew Wiley Leaving Oregon

Post by Stonehouse on Thu Apr 15, 2010 2:03 pm

Purplegeezer wrote:If he sits out, he can't draw a scholarship anywhere.

Really? I had always thought that you could be on scholarship still but just couldn't play. I always thought that's one of the reasons some coaches are hesitant to take transfers because it costs three years of scholarships for only two seasons of play (or four for three, two for one, etc.).

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Re: Drew Wiley Leaving Oregon

Post by Geezaldinho on Thu Apr 15, 2010 2:40 pm

Stoney,

the NCAA only allows four years of athletic scholarships, period.

That can be over a five year period, barring special exception like a medical exemption, but you still only get four years worth of athletic scholarship. (maybe they give you a do-over with some medical exemptions)

I'd have to look up whether a student can get the scholarship during the redshirt year, but I don't think so. Even if he could, he'd still have to play the last year on his own dime, and that might be coaches reluctance to pay ahead.

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Re: Drew Wiley Leaving Oregon

Post by Stonehouse on Thu Apr 15, 2010 3:42 pm

Hmmm... I don't know for sure, but I'm almost positive that the four years only applies to competition years, not number of years one can receive a scholarship.

I think the only rule with scholarships is that you can only give out 13 per year. Who you give them to is up to the program, and if you want to give them to a player for five years or even six years, that's OK.

I mean... the scholarships definitely apply to summer school, so what's the difference between a student-athlete who plays for four years and takes summer classes the whole time (which would add up to over a full year of regular academic time) versus a student-athlete who doesn't take summer classes, redshirts a year, and goes for five years?

And besides... think about it, there have been plenty of situations where a player comes in and the decision to redshirt him is made right before the season starts. Like BJ Porter his freshman year, for instance. Are you telling me that for a player like that he was on scholarship for the first few months of classes, but then when the coaches decide to redshirt him he's off? Or he would have to pay for his senior year? No way. Or what about Alex Tiefenthaler, who was pulled out of his redshirt midway through the season?

Though it does tend to be lip-service much of the time, the NCAA does want to see its student-athletes graduate. And a rule like that - limiting the number of years a school can give a kid a scholarship - would be brutal to the student-athletes and make it much more difficult for them to graduate.

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Re: Drew Wiley Leaving Oregon

Post by Geezaldinho on Thu Apr 15, 2010 3:55 pm

I'll look it up for sure when I get home.

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Re: Drew Wiley Leaving Oregon

Post by Geezaldinho on Thu Apr 15, 2010 10:26 pm

Stonehouse wrote:Hmmm... I don't know for sure, but I'm almost positive that the four years only applies to competition years, not number of years one can receive a scholarship.
I don't think it's that easy. The general conditions of granting of academic scholarships are for progress towards a degree. the awards can't exceed that amount, and everything I see in the NCCA D1 manual refers to either 2 year or 4 year institutions. I'm sticking with four years worth of scholarships (120 credits?). a student has to average 14 per semester to be eligible at all for aid or playing (that's where the summer school plays into it). That's only just under 4.5 years that a school can pay for you. At counting sport, that seems to mean 4 years, since there aren't partial scholarships.
Now there are all kinds of exceptions ... medical or other hardship,service academy or religious exceptions, academic post-grad awards (usually limited to 5k for 1 athlete) etc. but the principle is that you are enabling students to attend college tuition free at four year institutions. and it is possible to meet NCAA APR requirements in five years (reduced course load), but you still only get the equivalent of four years worth of scholarships.


I think the only rule with scholarships is that you can only give out 13 per year. Who you give them to is up to the program, and if you want to give them to a player for five years or even six years, that's OK.
again, no. I'm pretty sure the five year rule stays in effect, i.e. four years of competition in five years time. Maybe there's an exemption if you are from Spokane and get caught dealing drugs, but I didn't see that.
15.5.1.6 Eligibility Exhausted. A student-athlete receiving institutional financial aid after having exhausted
his or her eligibility in a sport is not a counter in that sport in later academic years following completion of eligibility
in the sport. For this provision to be applicable, the student-athlete is otherwise eligible for the aid and
is not permitted to take part in organized, institutional practice sessions in that sport unless the individual has
eligibility remaining under the five-year rule. (See Bylaw 15.3.1 for eligibility for financial aid.) (Revised: 1/10/91)
well, yeah, you can give the scholarships to who you want, but then it counts towards your 13 counting scholarship athletes. And since letters of intent are for one year only, you have no guarantee that the guy you paid to sit on the bench will be there next year. and it still doesn't mean you can pay a kid forever. four years is still it for each individual. and they can't stretch out their degree forever. you can't play past 26 (ask Gonzaga) and you have fewer years of eligibility as you approach that benchmark. they also have to be making progress towards a degree at an acceptable rate, and I don't think 6 years meets that requirement.
I looked it up, and you can give a kid a scholarship to sit.
The National Letter of Intent basic penalty is the loss of one season of competition in all sports and a required one year in residence at the next National Letter of Intent institution. It does not include a prohibition against receiving athletics financial aid or practicing with a team.
(national-letter.org)
But the chances are, once you stop the money, the kid will be gone. if he's a real student, he will have a degree before his last year. and not only did you pay a kid to sit, there was one less player on the active roster.



I mean... the scholarships definitely apply to summer school, so what's the difference between a student-athlete who plays for four years and takes summer classes the whole time (which would add up to over a full year of regular academic time) versus a student-athlete who doesn't take summer classes, redshirts a year, and goes for five years?
Summer classes are exempted from the requirements and from the granting of scholarship money for transfers.
Sitting out or year of residence Under the transfer regulations, you must spend an academic year in residence at the school to which you are transferring. Unless you qualify for a transfer exception or waiver, if you transfer from a four-year college to an NCAA school, you must complete one academic year in residence at the new school before you can play for or receive travel expenses from the new school. To satisfy a year in residence, you must be enrolled in and pass full-time program of studies for two full semesters or three full quarters. Summer school terms and part-time enrollment do not count toward a year in residence.
Usually when athletes are in summer school, it's because they took a reduced course load during the competition season and need to make up the credits to retain eligibility. sometimes they "pay ahead". It's still only one academic year's worth of credits.


And besides... think about it, there have been plenty of situations where a player comes in and the decision to redshirt him is made right before the season starts. Like BJ Porter his freshman year, for instance. Are you telling me that for a player like that he was on scholarship for the first few months of classes, but then when the coaches decide to redshirt him he's off? Or he would have to pay for his senior year? No way. Or what about Alex Tiefenthaler, who was pulled out of his redshirt midway through the season?
The scholarship starts when you sign the letter, enroll and take your first class, and is good for one year regardless. The eligibility clock starts at the first second of competition. Porter could have played at any time until the last second of the season. if he had, he would have burned his redshirt. Didn't big John burn his?
The letter of intent is clear on this one. The only exceptions involve exceptions applicable to the rest of the student body and must be decided by the academic authorities outside the athletic department. That would include situations where any student might be expelled or refused aid. I don't think any of us know all the details of Tiefenthaler's situation.
Season of competition Generally, NCAA rules say that any competition in a season regardless of the amount of time counts as having played a season in that sport. If you play any time during a season, regardless of how long you played, it counts as having played for an entire season in that sport. Your season of competition starts when you spend one second in competition on the field, court, gym or track
There are exceptions, of course - the one we are most familiar with is medical hardship exemptions. But those have to be granted by an NCAA committee. They aren't automatic.



Though it does tend to be lip-service much of the time, the NCAA does want to see its student-athletes graduate. And a rule like that - limiting the number of years a school can give a kid a scholarship - would be brutal to the student-athletes and make it much more difficult for them to graduate.
The NCAA is also nominally dedicated to the principle of amateurism. They don't want to see players stockpiled as semi-pros just to enhance a program's chances at a championship. The principle is that you must be a student, and you must be making progress towards a degree in four years. Sure, lot's of kids take longer, but programs can't benefit from that.

If a kid is sticking around for more than 4 - 4.5 years, the tuition money is coming from somewhere besides athletic scholarship. It might be a Pell grant or other needs based money, a loan, or academic scholarship, but it's not coming from athletic scholarships.

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