The Curious Case of Elias Harris

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The Curious Case of Elias Harris

Post by Stonehouse on Tue Jan 26, 2010 3:06 pm

Jon Wilner of the San Jose Mercury News (who does terrific WCC coverage) posted an very interesting article about Elias Harris' eligibility followed by an even more interesting follow-up. Lots of talk about Robin Smeulders and his research in trying to figure out why Smeulders had to lose a year but Harris was eligible right away. Check it out here:

http://blogs.mercurynews.com/collegesports/2010/01/21/wcc-ratings-special-report-the-curious-case-of-gonzagas-elias-harris/

In short, Wilner found that according to the NCAA it's illegal to play with paid players, not against them. (We already knew this was the reason Smeulders lost a year... he wasn't paid, but two of his teammates were.) As for Harris, the claim is that his team - in the same league as Smeulders - was completely amateur.

And the follow-up, which proves that two players on Harris' team are currently being paid:

http://blogs.mercurynews.com/collegesports/2010/01/26/wcc-ratings-more-on-the-curious-case-of-elias-harris/

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Re: The Curious Case of Elias Harris

Post by DaTruRochin on Tue Jan 26, 2010 3:17 pm

So, to raise a stink or to not raise a stink....

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Re: The Curious Case of Elias Harris

Post by GoZags on Tue Jan 26, 2010 3:58 pm

DaTruRochin wrote:So, to raise a stink or to not raise a stink....

Nothing to raise a stink about. As Wilner knows, the two Americans he cited signed with Speyer after Harris had left.

The NCAA Clearinghouse cleared Elias long before this post appeared (5th one in the thread) by one of the many German visitors new to GU's board.

http://www.guboards.spokesmanreview.com/showthread.php?t=22812

---------------
"To be honest...nobody here in Europe understands what the NCAA is doing. Philipp Neumann's team is playing in the same league as Elias Harris' former team is. Now Speyer (where Harris is from) did something that, in my opinion, is unprecedented. They refrained from signing any professionals for the last three years in order to not impede Elias Harris' eligibility...."

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Re: The Curious Case of Elias Harris

Post by Stonehouse on Tue Jan 26, 2010 4:59 pm

Oh, I believe Wilner in saying that Gonzaga wasn't up to any shenanigans.

However, I do believe an interesting case can be made about Harris' team misleading the GU/NCAA compliance staffs. It's good pub for them to say that they can send players to a successful American college team like Gonzaga. (And, in Harris' case, a likely draft pick.)

So... I don't know. I trust Wilner's journalistic integrity. He's no muckmaker. But it is curious. I mean, sure, it's very possible that no one on Harris' team was paid last year and that this year they are. BUT... I think he's justified in saying that it's unlikely.

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Re: The Curious Case of Elias Harris

Post by MesaPilot1 on Tue Jan 26, 2010 5:18 pm

hmm,very , berry interesting. But it does bring up somewhat of a sore subject not just for Go Zags and the Bulldogs but also UP. Wouldn't it be nice if Robin had another year of elgibility? Of course thats if he could beat out our Gonzaga Prep recruit next year,lol.

Much ado about water under the bridge,I'm sure pewey checked it out super-duper close. He's got way too cushy of a job up there to risk it on some German recruit. He has their whole fan base believing the only reason they win is because of him. It couldn't be because he's got a little Josh Pastner( LUTES asst in 90's+){recruiting fiend} next to him on the bench and another asst who isn't to bad.
Nice Post sunny Go Zags sunny very civil. Usually Zag fans can't get on another board without trying to POWERDOWN(The angry man syndrome with a inferiority complex mixed in) every little opinion that isn't the same as theirs. Your a refreshing change... Your man Bol Kong is playing better but....Hey good luck to you guys until we meet again, that way the Pilot game will be sweeter when Robin outscores Harris and Nik outscores Bouldin to lead the Pilots... cheers .....in my own little world.


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Last edited by MesaPilot1 on Tue Jan 26, 2010 5:45 pm; edited 3 times in total (Reason for editing : ...)

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Re: The Curious Case of Elias Harris

Post by Rob's Jacket on Tue Jan 26, 2010 6:39 pm

Stonehouse wrote:Oh, I believe Wilner in saying that Gonzaga wasn't up to any shenanigans.

Gonzaga is always up to some shenanigans.

FACT.

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Re: The Curious Case of Elias Harris

Post by GoZags on Tue Jan 26, 2010 8:24 pm

Rob's Jacket wrote:
Stonehouse wrote:Oh, I believe Wilner in saying that Gonzaga wasn't up to any shenanigans.

Gonzaga is always up to some shenanigans.

FACT.

The last "shenanigan" I recall was Fitz telling the WCC powers that be that the Kennel sat 4,000. There were influential members of the league that didn't want Gonzaga -- particularly with the original Kennel. That's when "4,000" came into being. Despite that, the first WCC games were played off campus --- in the much larger Spokane Coliseum (in the location of what is now the Spokane Arena).

But the fact of the matter is the Kennel actually had 2,852 "seats" -- well, not even seats -- but "bench" style seating. GU's move from the Big Sky to the WCC was big for the school.

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Re: The Curious Case of Elias Harris

Post by Geezaldinho on Tue Jan 26, 2010 10:19 pm

GoZags wrote:
Rob's Jacket wrote:
Stonehouse wrote:Oh, I believe Wilner in saying that Gonzaga wasn't up to any shenanigans.

Gonzaga is always up to some shenanigans.

FACT.

The last "shenanigan" I recall was Fitz telling the WCC powers that be that the Kennel sat 4,000. There were influential members of the league that didn't want Gonzaga -- particularly with the original Kennel. That's when "4,000" came into being. Despite that, the first WCC games were played off campus --- in the much larger Spokane Coliseum (in the location of what is now the Spokane Arena).

But the fact of the matter is the Kennel actually had 2,852 "seats" -- well, not even seats -- but "bench" style seating. GU's move from the Big Sky to the WCC was big for the school.

Ha ha.

Well that is absolutely NOT Gonzaga's or Fitz's last shenanigans. There was the issue of the bank account that got him run out of coaching and put a lot of egg on the face of the then President. Here's the version in the Seattle times, but it's not he only version I've heard.

http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/budwithers/2010846071_withers21.html

There are an awful lot of folks from that era still in power in Spokane. Some say he fell on his sword for them, some say he didn't. I guess we'll never know. It is a fact that the version that came out in the NCAA report is a bit different than Wither's.

But this is probably not the week to get deep into that. On balance, he was good for the league and good for Gonzaga.


Last edited by Purplegeezer on Tue Jan 26, 2010 11:37 pm; edited 1 time in total

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Re: The Curious Case of Elias Harris

Post by MesaPilot1 on Tue Jan 26, 2010 11:30 pm

I was going to bring up the Fitz Slush Fund but like you mentioned it is not really a good time considering the recent events. See Angelo even PN has compassion despite our fervor for Pilot Athletics.

Sweeping the next two road games is what will get Mesa excited. I look at this week as being very important,not as important as WCC tourney time , but pretty darn important for these guys to put their stamp on this season as "sucessful". Despite the disapointing losses PSU, IDAHO,NEVADA,UDUB,etc....

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Re: The Curious Case of Elias Harris

Post by DaTruRochin on Wed Jan 27, 2010 3:00 pm

Is hyperbole a ticket-able shenanigan offense? Not that it hasn't been earned in some cases, but uhhhh... Well, you know...

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Re: The Curious Case of Elias Harris

Post by PurplePrideTrumpet on Wed Jan 27, 2010 8:18 pm

They do have a firm in Bristol, CT doing PR work for them for free. It has four letters, E _ _ N... Is that on the up and up? Probably just a donation of services..

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Re: The Curious Case of Elias Harris

Post by GoZags on Thu Jan 28, 2010 7:24 am

PurplePrideTrumpet wrote:They do have a firm in Bristol, CT doing PR work for them for free. It has four letters, E _ _ N... Is that on the up and up? Probably just a donation of services..

I suppose you could also add cnnsi and CBS (Seth Davis), the Sporting News (Mike DeCourcey) and a host of others who have had positive things to say about Gonzaga.

I'm just glad you didn't mention Ehlo and Heister. Talk about PR work.

Now, Bill Kreuger -- there's a broadcaster for you. (He's also a friend of mine)

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Re: The Curious Case of Elias Harris

Post by DaTruRochin on Thu Jan 28, 2010 9:27 am

GoZags wrote:
Now, Bill Kreuger -- there's a broadcaster for you. (He's also a friend of mine)

PANDERING!!! (It's quite alright, we'll take what we can get Razz )

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the Plot Thickens

Post by Geezaldinho on Fri Jan 29, 2010 11:54 pm

I ran across the minutes of the January NCAA meeting (at which fr Beauchamp attended) and was checking out the changes to the rules that were implemented when this one popped out at me:

2009-22
AMATEURISM AND ELIGIBILITY --
INVOLVEMENT WITH PROFESSIONAL TEAMS --
EXCEPTION -- PRIOR TO INITIAL FULL-TIME COLLEGIATE ENROLLMENT -- DELAYED ENROLLMENT - - SEASONS OF COMPETITION -- SPORTS OTHERTHAN MEN'S ICE HOCKEY

applicable to
student-
athletes who
initially enroll
full time in a
collegiate
institution on
or after August
1, 2010. For
section E as it
applies to
tennis to
August 1,
2011,
applicable to
student-
athletes who
initially enroll
full time in a
collegiate
institution on
or after August
1, 2011.



In sports other than men's ice hockey and
skiing, to specify that prior to initial full-time
collegiate enrollment, an individual may enter
into an agreement to compete on a
professional team and compete on a
professional team, provided the agreement
does not guarantee or promise payment (at any
time) in excess of actual and necessary
expenses to participate on the team; further, in
sports other than men's ice hockey, skiing,
tennis, swimming and diving and women's
volleyball, to specify that a student-athlete
who does not initially enroll full-time in a
collegiate institution within one year (six
months for tennis) or the next opportunity to
enroll following the high school graduation
date of the prospective student-athlete's class
and participates in organized events after the
specified time period shall be charged with a
season of intercollegiate competition for each
year of participation and shall fulfill an
academic year in residence (one year for each
year of competition in tennis) on matriculation
at the certifying institution before being
eligible to represent the institution in
intercollegiate competition.




amendment to delay
the effective date of
section E as it
applies to tennis to
August 1, 2011,
applicable to
student-athletes
who initially enroll
full time in a
collegiate institution
on or after August
1, 2011.

Initially agreed to
forward for
membership review
and comment.

On reconsideration,
approved an
amendment to
exclude skiing from
the application of
the proposal.

On reconsideration,
adopted.

So, as I read it, What Robin did in playing for the German team is now legal for incoming students as long as they don't take a year off from their studies to do it.

http://web1.ncaa.org/web_files/DI_MC_BOD/DI_BOD/2010/January/Board_report_combined.pdf

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Re: The Curious Case of Elias Harris

Post by MesaPilot1 on Sat Jan 30, 2010 7:13 am

Oh no out come the Lawyers, I mean guys who couldn\'t cut it in Dental or Medical school they had to stroke their egos and become the next Nixon/liar\'s-F lee Bailey, John Cochren........I can see them crawling out from under the rocks

The whole Elias Harris issues smells like a little stinky Pewey boy. It has his hands all over it. He was pretty desperate to get Harris with Daye leaving prematurely and all the other seniors that were leaving. I\'m not concerned about past pay. I just wonder how Pewey gonna keep overjealous alumni,boosters from giving Harris free trips home to Germany on Breaks, and other benefits that I could see wierdo obscessed Zag fans trying to give him.Or how his asst can afford to travel, telephone, all over the world ala Kelvin Sampson and not violate NCAA regulations. How does gonzaga have all of the these extra funds to travel that the Kentucky\'s, North Carolina\'s , Florida\'s, UCLA\'s, cant afford to travel to or send assistant couch\'s to. I was always curious how they can afford to recruit in Europe, and practically none of the other schools in the USA are there. (I do recall that someone from the USF coaching staff being at the U-19 World Championships,but all they had to do was trade in a BMW or bottle of vino to do that,lol). Gonzaga sure does push the NCAA regulations on many issues when it comes to mens basketball does anybody notice their starting to get as much press about this as Kentucky,and they other marginally rule abiding schools as of late.

It would be nice if they "grandfathered" Robin in with another year of eligibility. I doubt it though. Thanks for bringing up the info Geez. It makes for nice pre-SCU game chatter.


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Re: The Curious Case of Elias Harris

Post by wrv on Sat Jan 30, 2010 7:58 am

The real issue for Pilot fans, curious case notwitstanding, is whether there is any chance that Mr. Smuelders will gain another year. I assume that ship has sailed, and that Robin will be gone after the year is over.

The adoption of the new rule suggests that the NCAA recognizes some unfairness in the old rule. My curiousity also concerns why the NCAA won't relent and give the young man an option to remain. Are they truly as crusty and bureaucratric as they appear? Is our representative always meek and compliant in the face of unjust and unequal treatment, or did he try to amend the rule to grandfather Smeulders?

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Re: The Curious Case of Elias Harris

Post by GoZags on Mon Feb 15, 2010 1:39 pm

Some additional thoughts on this topic linked below:

http://www.guboards.spokesmanreview.com/showthread.php?t=26882

BTW, very nice weekend for the Pilots.

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Re: The Curious Case of Elias Harris

Post by DaTruRochin on Tue Mar 23, 2010 3:38 pm

The curious case gets "curious-er"...

He is apparently re-considering his decision to return to school now. I don't see this as necessarily as a bad, thing, the kid has gobs of talent and there is nothing wrong with checking out your options. His situation gets even more interesting if you consider that he's already 20, he stays another year or 2 and he's already 22, and in NBA prospect language that's a potential red flag. And even worse, with the impending lockout next summer, (read: "veritably guaranteed lockout: because the owners won't budge and don't have to because of the high percentage of players living beyond their means (which is apparently possible when you make 7-8 figures)) if he were to leave then he might not have a guaranteed contract to come to.

So basically he has two fold dilemma ) of coming out now and getting the guaranteed 1st round paycheck (which, IMO, he probably deserves) and missing out on the fun and potential development in college, or b) waiting 2 years because I'm assuming after next year the lockout will make leaving college unwise, but then getting to the point where he risks going to a draft where he'd a 23 year old rookie, which might slide him down (unless of course he becomes an absolute can't miss guy)

I don't know, it's kind of a tough call, he's fun to watch and it would be cool to see him grow, but man it almost seems like fiscally this might be the best time for him... It is a curious case indeed.

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Re: The Curious Case of Elias Harris

Post by PurplePrideTrumpet on Tue Mar 23, 2010 8:03 pm

So coming up we're going to have labor issues in the NFL and NBA? Yeah, that's not going to fly under the radar til the 11th hour like the MLS drama...

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