College Cup Locations

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College Cup Locations

Post by fwill on Thu Nov 12, 2009 10:23 pm

Here's a question for all of you Pilot Nation fans: Can anyone explain why the College Cup only alternates between Cary, N.C. and Texas Station, TX? I know that it didn't used to be that way (Merlo Field hosted in 1995), but for some reason it's now only held in inaccessible places with lousy stadiums. What's the rationale behind this?

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Re: College Cup Locations

Post by harryb on Thu Nov 12, 2009 10:27 pm

They're looking for stadiums (stadia?) that hold 10,000 people.

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Re: College Cup Locations

Post by fwill on Thu Nov 12, 2009 10:31 pm

Aggie Stadium holds 3500 people. Merlo holds more!

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Re: College Cup Locations

Post by fwill on Thu Nov 12, 2009 10:33 pm

Wake Med in Cary, NC holds 7k and can expand to 10k, but still, the attendance would be better at UP. Why not a location on the West Coast?

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Re: College Cup Locations

Post by fwill on Thu Nov 12, 2009 10:39 pm

Both UCLA and Santa Clara have stadiums large enough to seat 10k and they have the added bonus of being in place that people actually want to visit!

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Re: College Cup Locations

Post by Geezaldinho on Thu Nov 12, 2009 10:47 pm

fwill wrote:Aggie Stadium holds 3500 people. Merlo holds more!

No, Aggie soccer stadium holds more depending on how they arrange temporary seating.

They have the regular season single game attendance recored of 8,204 when TAMU beat UNC in 2006, in in a year the heels won the National Championship



http://www.aggieathletics.com/facilities/soccercomplex.html

If we ever want to host again, the seating at Merlo will have to expand, but not by a lot. it could be done.

I think the NCAA would consider us if seating was in the 7-8K range.

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Re: College Cup Locations

Post by UPSoccerFanatic on Thu Nov 12, 2009 10:50 pm

[Written before the preceding couple of posts.]

The Geez hopefully will weigh in on this, but a couple of years ago I think the NCAA went through a bidding process for the College Cup that covered a period of years. The process ended up with Cary and College Station alternating for the period of years involved. I think Cary has the Cup next year and that particular period of years is over. If my recollection is right, the NCAA is in the process of a new sequence of championship bidding.

There is a new NCAA policy that says championships are not supposed to be in remote locations. Plus, as those trying to get room reservations in College Station know, it doesn't have enough hotel accommodations to serve the College Cup. It will be very interesting to see if the NCAA handles this one properly and discontinues the Cup in College Station. No offense to College Station, my wife and I had a great time there in 2005, but it is not set up to handle the College Cup, especially as the Division I College Women's Soccer fan base grows.

I wouldn't be surprised to see either Austin or Dallas in the running for future Cups. Texas, in Austin, has a good facility (although the fans are separated from the field by a running track) and SMU, in Dallas, has an excellent facility. Austin in itself is a great place to visit and could be a really good location, so I'd be very happy to see the Cup having Austin as one of its locations.

I don't like Cary as a location. Not because I don't like the area, but because with North Carolina as a very frequent participant, I don't think the competition is fair when it's in Cary. On the other hand, the area is a fun place to visit.

I'd love to see a Cup some day at Multnomah Stadium. Assuming, however, that they will have artificial turf, it probably isn't likely.

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Re: College Cup Locations

Post by Geezaldinho on Thu Nov 12, 2009 10:53 pm

fwill wrote:Both UCLA and Santa Clara have stadiums large enough to seat 10k and they have the added bonus of being in place that people actually want to visit!

after the last couple of experiences with how visiting fans are treated at UCLA, I sure wouldn't want to see a game there. better viewing on TV.

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Re: College Cup Locations

Post by UPSoccerFanatic on Thu Nov 12, 2009 10:57 pm

Geezaldinho wrote:
fwill wrote:Both UCLA and Santa Clara have stadiums large enough to seat 10k and they have the added bonus of being in place that people actually want to visit!

after the last couple of experiences with how visiting fans are treated at UCLA, I sure wouldn't want to see a game there. better viewing on TV.

I agree completely with the Geez on this. UCLA has a grandstand on one side of the field on which most of the fans sit, including all of the opposing teams' fans. The grandstand is far removed from the field. On the other side, there are bleachers right next to the field. UCLA purposefully excludes visiting team fans from the bleachers. It's a disgrace for which UCLA should be ashamed.

Plus, it's a truly ugly facility, and the other fan facilities (concessions and restrooms) are bad. No way should a College Cup be there.

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Re: College Cup Locations

Post by PurplePrideTrumpet on Thu Nov 12, 2009 11:24 pm

UPSoccerFanatic wrote: I wouldn't be surprised to see either Austin or Dallas in the running for future Cups. Texas, in Austin, has a good facility (although the fans are separated from the field by a running track) and SMU, in Dallas, has an excellent facility. Austin in itself is a great place to visit and could be a really good location, so I'd be very happy to see the Cup having Austin as one of its locations.
The Pilots like Austin as well. They went there for the 2002 Cup. The Cup was in Dallas a year or two before that.

UPSoccerFanatic wrote:I'd love to see a Cup some day at Multnomah Stadium. Assuming, however, that they will have artificial turf, it probably isn't likely.
This still could happen. Just tonight Merritt was on John Strong's radio show talking about how the pitch will still be artificial (there are several reasons for this), but they will bring in grass for international matches. Why not for the College Cup? There would be about a month of prep time available between the end of the PSU and high school gridiron seasons and the weekend of the Cup.

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Re: College Cup Locations

Post by DaTruRochin on Thu Nov 12, 2009 11:43 pm

They might, but bringing natural grass is VERY pricey, I remember hearing the figure was around 300-400K per match up at Qwest this last summer. Unless the attendance is absolutely huge, it might be tough for the NCAA to justify such an expense...

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Re: College Cup Locations

Post by Geezaldinho on Thu Nov 12, 2009 11:45 pm

UPSoccerFanatic wrote:[Written before the preceding couple of posts.]

The Geez hopefully will weigh in on this, but a couple of years ago I think the NCAA went through a bidding process for the College Cup that covered a period of years. The process ended up with Cary and College Station alternating for the period of years involved. I think Cary has the Cup next year and that particular period of years is over. If my recollection is right, the NCAA is in the process of a new sequence of championship bidding.

There is a new NCAA policy that says championships are not supposed to be in remote locations. Plus, as those trying to get room reservations in College Station know, it doesn't have enough hotel accommodations to serve the College Cup. It will be very interesting to see if the NCAA handles this one properly and discontinues the Cup in College Station. No offense to College Station, my wife and I had a great time there in 2005, but it is not set up to handle the College Cup, especially as the Division I College Women's Soccer fan base grows.

I wouldn't be surprised to see either Austin or Dallas in the running for future Cups. Texas, in Austin, has a good facility (although the fans are separated from the field by a running track) and SMU, in Dallas, has an excellent facility. Austin in itself is a great place to visit and could be a really good location, so I'd be very happy to see the Cup having Austin as one of its locations.

I don't like Cary as a location. Not because I don't like the area, but because with North Carolina as a very frequent participant, I don't think the competition is fair when it's in Cary. On the other hand, the area is a fun place to visit.

I'd love to see a Cup some day at Multnomah Stadium. Assuming, however, that they will have artificial turf, it probably isn't likely.

Most of what you say is correct about the bidding process. If I had a little more energy tonight, I'd look up the relevant articles.

One of the key things is the "remote locations" clause. I think that has special meaning for the NCAA. There is an approved list of locations that the NCAA says are OK to to hold their conferences, committee meeting, and other affairs. They won't pay for meetings in 'remote locations" locations, and since they use the same travel agent for their meetings as for competition athletes and staff, I think that's what they are looking at.

For the meetings, things like cost of transportation, hotels, and dining factor in.

The last time I checked (last summer), Portland is on the approved list. a couple of major cities aren't. I can't remember which they are, but I was surprised when I figured it out. It was probably because things got too expensive at those locations and they wanted to discourage junkets.

Artificial turf is theoretically allowed for the College Cup, especially, I'll bet, if its one of the latest generation turfs that's approved for FIFA competition.
But the wording is that grass fields are "prefered", so I'd also bet that if the choice was between a grass field and a turf field, the grass field would win every time. That might change over time, especially if the claims that turf field are safer are ever borne out.

I also doubt the NCAA would schedule a college cup in a place like Notre Dame or Minneapolis after last year's experiences there.

Besides, I doubt the university would want a College Cup at Multnomah over a College Cup on the campus.. I think they see the CC as a way to showcase the University. They'd rather figure out how to get the seating up to some minimum the NCAA would accept.

I think UPSF is right that there will be a new round of bidding, and I heard a rumor that SCU would put in a bid, but there was beer involved, so I'm not sure how reliable that rumor was. The new Buck Shaw would be a great place, but if the NCAA wants long term commitments again this time, perhaps even Santa Clara is too small for a multi-year bid. The NCAA has a lot of requirements, and in the current bids, I think a couple of universities pooled their resources, so we might have to do something like pooling with Oregon. maybe alternating locations with them. That would mean an upgrade of their facilities, too.

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Re: College Cup Locations

Post by pms275 on Fri Nov 13, 2009 7:48 am

Geezaldinho wrote: The NCAA has a lot of requirements, and in the current bids, I think a couple of universities pooled their resources, so we might have to do something like pooling with Oregon. maybe alternating locations with them. That would mean an upgrade of their facilities, too.

Unfortunately, I think that Oregon's facilities are as good as they're going to get. They share some of their field with the football team which uses that and the adjoining field for practice--both in the spring and at least in the first half of fall before the weather gets bad. Any kind of upgrade would have to be temporary.

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Re: College Cup Locations

Post by runner girl on Fri Nov 13, 2009 8:01 am

Might it not have to do with weather? The College Cup is in December. Holding it someplace in the south would increase the odds of decent weather.

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Re: College Cup Locations

Post by FANatic on Fri Nov 13, 2009 10:22 am

Righ-to, runner girl.

How many Super Bowls are played up North outside?

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Re: College Cup Locations

Post by SoreKnees on Fri Nov 13, 2009 10:33 am

Why not HDC or one of the other professional fields? These are top quality fields with sizable capacity. Some (LA and Houston, for example) are located on or near college campuses. All are in large cities with good access and plenty of hotels.

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Re: College Cup Locations

Post by fwill on Fri Nov 13, 2009 10:39 am

How does the bidding process for the College Cup work? Do schools/stadiums bid for the right to hold the CC? I noticed that for the men's College Cup they seem to award it a year or two in advance rather than giving it to two locations for a set number of years. Is the bidding confidential?

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Re: College Cup Locations

Post by DaTruRochin on Fri Nov 13, 2009 12:50 pm

SoreKnees wrote:Why not HDC or one of the other professional fields? These are top quality fields with sizable capacity. Some (LA and Houston, for example) are located on or near college campuses. All are in large cities with good access and plenty of hotels.

That would theoretically work, but the rental costs might be prohibitive to the cost conscious NCAA, although Houston plays at SMU's football stadium, which would help with that, but you have to deal with the crappy looking FB lines

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Re: College Cup Locations

Post by SoreKnees on Fri Nov 13, 2009 1:09 pm

Houston plays at Robertson Stadium, which is on the U of Houston's campus. (SMU is in Dallas.) The UH football team used to play in the Astrodome, but I don't know if they still do. When I lived in Houston, Robertson Stadium was used largely for high school football and hardly at all by UH. I don't know if that's changed.

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Re: College Cup Locations

Post by DaTruRochin on Fri Nov 13, 2009 1:12 pm

I knew it was one of those schools... Anyway all I know is, I watched the Sounders/Dynamo game, and that pitched looked like absolute &*$#. Really sandy, lots of bare patches, all the football lines burned in so badly that they had to use yellow paint to mark off the soccer lines. In theory it would work, but the players and teams who work so hard to get to the final 4 deserve a FAR better field than that.

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Re: College Cup Locations

Post by PurplePrideTrumpet on Fri Nov 13, 2009 1:16 pm

DaTruRochin wrote: That would theoretically work, but the rental costs might be prohibitive to the cost conscious NCAA, although Houston plays at SMU's football stadium, which would help with that, but you have to deal with the crappy looking FB lines
Dynamo shares with UH, but yes, there is that to consider. Like Rochin said, for the playoff game Sunday the lines looked terrible and the field was beat up because of the football game the day before. Earlier this year I watched a Concacaf Champions League where you could barely make out the soccer lines on TV.

And that's why we can't have grass in Portland...yet.

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Re: College Cup Locations

Post by DaTruRochin on Fri Nov 13, 2009 1:23 pm

Pretty much, and as PPT is alluding to the new field turf's lines clean up REALLY well, even in 1080p you wouldn't even know football/soccer games are played on the exact same pitch. ALSO it should be noted that Field Turf is starting to get further recognition, I'm pretty sure the RB Salzburg team has it on their home pitch, as does CSKA Moscow (Which as used in a Champs League match this season). Heck even the infamous Sir. Alex Ferguson said the artificial pitch was a satisfactory surface... And he's not exactly one to bite his tongue on ANY topic that might somehow contribute to a disadvantage for his club.

But that said, I think a quality playing surface should rank just as high as location when considering CC locales.

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Re: College Cup Locations

Post by SoreKnees on Fri Nov 13, 2009 1:37 pm

Quality of the pitch is certainly (along with weather) a large consideration. I haven't seen the Dynamo home games so I didn't know that Robertson was so bad. (But I'm not surprised given the vanishingly low priority that soccer would have in Texas.)

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Re: College Cup Locations

Post by fozziewozzie on Sat Nov 14, 2009 12:38 am

i went to a college cup in san jose in 1999. the stadium im sure met ncaa requirements but it really wasnt a good soccer pitch.
also, i believe that i have read somewhere that the host team must play a majority of their home games on the hosting pitch. so that means that while the pilots play their games at merlo, to host the cup it can not be held at pge park even when, an if, it is renovated.

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Re: College Cup Locations

Post by PilotNut on Sat Nov 14, 2009 1:13 am

Okay, here is a question: Assume Civic Stadium (I refuse to call it by its "rental" name") is remodeled into a satisfactory soccer pitch/stadium, and is selected as the host for the College Cup. Also assume the Pilots make it to said College Cup, and are playing in the finals for the Championship... how large of an attendance do you think we could get?

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