Montana Match

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Montana Match

Post by Indigo Kid on Thu Oct 01, 2009 12:28 pm

Nice article about the match Friday and the excitement of playing at Merlo.... Nothing like a "fine Merlo"..
http://www.montanagrizzlies.com/pages/news_item.aspx?n=8280&m=26

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Re: Montana Match

Post by Geezaldinho on Thu Oct 01, 2009 12:45 pm

Also a link to a pretty nice blog for the Montana team.

video and all

http://grizsoccer.wordpress.com/

Looking at the Minnesota game, they packed the box. I guess we can expect the same.

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Re: Montana Match

Post by UPSoccerFanatic on Thu Oct 01, 2009 3:31 pm

I agree it's a nice article. Plus, the author is literate -- the "proximate match"!

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Re: Montana Match

Post by BigBro on Thu Oct 01, 2009 3:35 pm

Hello to you all.

Have to say, I think Montana is in for a tough game. All things considered, I'd rather they played WSU on friday and montana on sunday, I think the increased audience helps them elevate their game.

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Re: Montana Match

Post by UPSoccerFanatic on Thu Oct 01, 2009 3:55 pm

BigBro wrote:Hello to you all.

Have to say, I think Montana is in for a tough game. All things considered, I'd rather they played WSU on friday and montana on sunday, I think the increased audience helps them elevate their game.

Especially since WSU has had a week off. I bet we'll see lots of the "non-starters" on Friday.

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Re: Montana Match

Post by aleppiek on Thu Oct 01, 2009 3:59 pm

I'm really hoping to see Kassi get in there and log some quality minutes on Friday.

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Re: Montana Match

Post by DaTruRochin on Fri Oct 02, 2009 8:40 pm

Eek... You know it's one sided when 70 mins into the game stat tracker gives the "key player" from the other team that accolade because they mustered the one off target shot of the game...

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Re: Montana Match

Post by onetouchfutbol on Fri Oct 02, 2009 10:02 pm

Yeah...winning 7-0, outshooting the opponent 21-3, and resting two potential player of the year candidates. That's domination.

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Re: Montana Match

Post by Geezaldinho on Fri Oct 02, 2009 10:04 pm

didn't help our RPI, though. We dropped 3 slots with the win.

Nice to see the new faces can play, though. I had a hunch this was going to be like this, so I kept track of a few stats

Montana touched the ball in the offensive end 5 times in the first half.
the first possession in the attacking third was the shot with about 7:30 left.

we had one starter in at the end - Elli.

she scored. it was a little scarey when she was slow to get up.

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Re: Montana Match

Post by DaTruRochin on Fri Oct 02, 2009 10:07 pm

Yeah, just out of curiosity, what was that MT yellow card for?

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Re: Montana Match

Post by Geezaldinho on Fri Oct 02, 2009 10:14 pm

shirt pull and throw to the ground when our player got past theirs.

Montana player got frustrated and got Kreminski? maybe Jacka, I forget.

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Re: Montana Match

Post by fozziewozzie on Sat Oct 03, 2009 12:36 am

Though I know I don't give a recap of the game[s] like others here, this is my opinion.
dani had a hat trick so naturally everyone may think she was totally dominant in the game. u of p started only 5 regulars, dani, keelin, kendra, Elli an megan. after being up by 4-0 at half, sarah an molly klier started the 2nd half.
The players that stood out to me were, Kendra, Ellie, Halley an Emma in the 1st half. Kendra an Elli, were work horses an each scored in the game, not necessarily in the 1st half. Halley reminded me so much of Soph when she plays up top, possesses the ball an then feeds her teammates. Last year I always loved the chemistry that Halley an Soph had up top when they played together. As for Emma, once her starting 'jitters' calmed down, she was very good. I always thought she mighgt be a diamond in the rough.
The last players I want to recognize for what I thought were very good performances are Taylor Brooke and Molly Klier. Taylor played her best game to date an she really hasn't played a bad one. She took two shots off the face, the last bloodied her nose an forced her to leave the game. And then there is Molly, who hasn't played a minute at home this year, can't say for the road games. I was very, very impressed with her poise, composure and level-headedness. She started the 2nd half an up til now I was curiuos about her. I think she may have earned herself some more minutes.
Lastly,
cassie didnt play, she wasnt even dressed down! anyone know why??

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Re: Montana Match

Post by Geezaldinho on Sat Oct 03, 2009 12:58 am

fozziewozzie wrote:
cassie didnt play, she wasnt even dressed down! anyone know why??

Well, Kassi did have that back surgery. Maybe they don't think it's quite the time to put her in, yet.

I don't think there's any need to rush things.

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Re: Montana Match

Post by Harry Redknapp on Sat Oct 03, 2009 6:41 am

It was fun to watch the game last night to see a number of players who don't get a lot of playing time. Montana just never got going. Kudos to Garrett for giving players the time. UP started with Hallie De Young, Emma Nelson, Kristin Kelly, Taylor Brooke, Hallie Kreminski all playing. Molly Klier made her UP debut in the second half and Elinor Priest, Janelle Jacka and Sara Jackman all got time in the second half. These players all enjoyed themselves and played hard and looked good on the night. Sara's reaction on scoring was joyful - they took the opportunity to play.

Interesting to see Kendra playing holding mid at the start of the second half. It is so good to see her healthy again after the disappointment of last season. She looks so happy to be playing and like she could run for ever out there.

There's no substitute for playing time. Charney played 90 minutes and at the end of the game she looked very tired. Training and practice just isn't the same.

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Re: Montana Match

Post by mattywizz on Sat Oct 03, 2009 9:56 am

Geezaldinho wrote:didn't help our RPI, though. We dropped 3 slots with the win.

Don't you just love a ranking tool that a loss in some situations is rewarded more than a win in others?

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Re: Montana Match

Post by fan from afar on Sat Oct 03, 2009 10:26 am

"Interesting to see Kendra playing holding mid at the start of the second half. It is so good to see her healthy again after the disappointment of last season. She looks so happy to be playing and like she could run for ever out there."

I thought Kendra looked right at home at holding mid. She distributed well and defended the middle well.

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Re: Montana Match

Post by UPSoccerFanatic on Sat Oct 03, 2009 12:07 pm

The drop in the Pilots' RPI may not have been due just to the Montana game, although that is something that can happen with the RPI. The teams the Pilots already have played have had a pretty bad week so far. For example, Cal lost to Sacramento State. So, the Pilots have taken some damage to their previously high strength of schedule numbers. I don't know if those games already were in the system when the Geez entered the Montana game result. But, they may have accounted for all or some of the drop.

On a different topic: If I saw what I thought I saw towards the end of the game, the ref goofed. Taylor was down with what hopefully was just a cramp (she was limping after the game). The ref stopped play with Portland in possession just in the Portland defensive end of the field about a third of the field away from Taylor. Once she was up and off the field, to restart play he awarded Portland a free kick. At least, it looked like a free kick to me. The Pilot who took the kick passed it back to a central defender and Portland went on the attack.

Here's the rule on this from the NCAA Soccer Rules manual, which is available at the following link: http://www.ncaapublications.com/Uploads/PDF/Soccer_Rules_Finalb4ca211d-4dbd-412c-9865-f928785e8b26.pdf

"9.2 Out of Play

"The ball is out of play in the following circumstances:

"9.2.2 The game has been stopped by the referee.

"9.3 Restarts

"9.3.2 After temporary suspension of play: In case of temporary suspension of play due to an injury or any other cause, there shall be a drop ball at the spot where the ball was located when play was suspended, provided the ball was not in the goal area." [There is a special rule if the ball was in the goal area.]

The one thing I was not certain about, in the game, was whether the ref actually awarded a free kick or it was a drop ball that both teams conceded was intended to result in the Pilots' possession with the Pilots then being able to restart their attack. If the ref awarded a free kick, it was an error. If it looked like a free kick but was a drop ball, then that was the correct procedure.

I was aware of this because there was a game between Mercer and Georgia State last week in which the ref awarded a free kick to Mercer after an injury stoppage, during overtime. Mercer's player put it in the air into the goal area and her teammate headed it in for a goal. The Georgia State coach filed an immediate protest, but the Mercer coach refused to put his players back on the field to play out the game in case the protest was upheld. The NCAA rules committee, which handles protests, ruled that the goal did not count. Since the game was not otherwise completed, but had passed the 70 minute mark, the committee determined that the game is to be treated as a tie.

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Re: Montana Match

Post by Geezaldinho on Sat Oct 03, 2009 1:14 pm

UPSoccerFanatic wrote:The drop in the Pilots' RPI may not have been due just to the Montana game, although that is something that can happen with the RPI. The teams the Pilots already have played have had a pretty bad week so far. For example, Cal lost to Sacramento State. So, the Pilots have taken some damage to their previously high strength of schedule numbers. I don't know if those games already were in the system when the Geez entered the Montana game result. But, they may have accounted for all or some of the drop.

On a different topic: If I saw what I thought I saw towards the end of the game, the ref goofed. Taylor was down with what hopefully was just a cramp (she was limping after the game). The ref stopped play with Portland in possession just in the Portland defensive end of the field about a third of the field away from Taylor. Once she was up and off the field, to restart play he awarded Portland a free kick. At least, it looked like a free kick to me. The Pilot who took the kick passed it back to a central defender and Portland went on the attack.

Here's the rule on this from the NCAA Soccer Rules manual, which is available at the following link: http://www.ncaapublications.com/Uploads/PDF/Soccer_Rules_Finalb4ca211d-4dbd-412c-9865-f928785e8b26.pdf

"9.2 Out of Play

"The ball is out of play in the following circumstances:

"9.2.2 The game has been stopped by the referee.

"9.3 Restarts

"9.3.2 After temporary suspension of play: In case of temporary suspension of play due to an injury or any other cause, there shall be a drop ball at the spot where the ball was located when play was suspended, provided the ball was not in the goal area." [There is a special rule if the ball was in the goal area.]

The one thing I was not certain about, in the game, was whether the ref actually awarded a free kick or it was a drop ball that both teams conceded was intended to result in the Pilots' possession with the Pilots then being able to restart their attack. If the ref awarded a free kick, it was an error. If it looked like a free kick but was a drop ball, then that was the correct procedure.

I was aware of this because there was a game between Mercer and Georgia State last week in which the ref awarded a free kick to Mercer after an injury stoppage, during overtime. Mercer's player put it in the air into the goal area and her teammate headed it in for a goal. The Georgia State coach filed an immediate protest, but the Mercer coach refused to put his players back on the field to play out the game in case the protest was upheld. The NCAA rules committee, which handles protests, ruled that the goal did not count. Since the game was not otherwise completed, but had passed the 70 minute mark, the committee determined that the game is to be treated as a tie.


I recorded the entry for game, and I wanted to see what it would do to the RPI, so I checked it before and after the entry. Two of the three slots was due directly to the game unless somebody else entered scores simultaneously (not likely). But yeah, it looks like the teams we played (and will play) didn't have such a great night.

An opposing player is not required to be at the spot of a restart, so it may just have been that, and not a free kick. That may have been why the UP player played the ball back, as is custom.

The Georgia State - Mercer ruling is interesting on several levels. This may be one of those cases where poorly written rules might have contributed to the ultimate decision.

Here's the rule on Protests.

10.9 Protest
If a game ends (i.e., legal contest, minimum of 70 minutes played) and a
protest option is elected, the coach lodging the protest, provided it pertains
to the misapplication of a rule of conduct (e.g., a referee requiring teams to
continue playing after a legal goal has been scored in any overtime period),
shall do so before the officials sign the official score sheet and leave the site
of the competition
. The protest shall be recorded on the NCAA Soccer Protest Form
(see form on page 104) and forwarded to the NCAA Men’s and Women’s
Soccer Secretary-Rules Editor. (see page 8 for address, e-mail, fax and
phone information) Protests shall not be received or considered if they are
based solely on a decision involving the accuracy of the referee’s judgment.
The decisions of the referee regarding facts of play are final.
If the protest is found to be valid, and the result of the game changed, the
secretary-rules editor’s decision, which shall be final, shall be reported to
the respective teams, and/or governing sports authority (e.g., conference,
commissioner, director of athletics, etc.).
The secretary-rules editor shall determine the status of the game and if the
decision results in a decision to replay the game, it shall be replayed in its
entirety. Further, all statistics in the previous game shall not count; however,
cautions and ejections occurring in the protested game are subject to the
procedures stated in Rules 12.16, 12.17 and 12.18. Whereby a game result
clearly delineates a winner, there shall be no replay and all statistics, except
the modified score, shall remain.
If the protest involves a possible scorekeeper error (e.g., failure to record
an obvious red card ejection), the referee and protesting coach shall make
an immediate determination based on all information available at the game
site. The protest shall not be resolved on a delayed basis by the secretary-
rules editor. All rulings by the secretary-rules editor are final and there shall
be no right of appeal.

So it seems like the Mercer coach goofed. It is the Georgia State coach who should have filed his protest and left the field. Had the game been played out, It seems the "facts on the field" clause might have held up, depending on what , in the opinion of the ref, caused the injury. It also seems that if the Georgia State coach didn't leave the field he wouldn't have followed procedure, and the protest would likely have been disallowed.
I was involved in a game where this happened in the Permian era (before the NCAA controlled soccer), and the fact that the game went on was grounds for disallowing the protest. On one level, this actually makes sense, since if the facts in protest was so egregious that it affected the game outcome, continued play should not be on the table.

The Mercer coach knew the game shouldn't have gone on, but he didn't realize that if it did, there would have been no valid protest.


The secretary-rules editor named repeatedly is the legendary retired Seattle-Pacific Coach Cliff McCrath. He is also the new executive Director of the National Intercollegiate Soccer Official's Association

So he is pretty much the rules Tsar. What Cliff says, goes.

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Re: Montana Match

Post by SoreKnees on Sat Oct 03, 2009 3:52 pm

I'm pretty sure that the referee called a foul on the play, then delayed the restart to deal with the injury. I was watching play. The whistle came in the context of play and I didn't notice the player down until he went over to check on her.

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Re: Montana Match

Post by Geezaldinho on Sat Oct 03, 2009 4:45 pm

The GA St - Mercer game protest got me interested so I went hunting.

Though the score in question was in the 66th minute, the "winning" goal was in the 113th minute of overtime.

At that point, the ref declared a goal, which means the game is over and the Georgia State coach filed his protest.

The Georgia State coach could file his protest as long as it was before the ref signed the scorecard, and I don't think the Mercer coach made any refusal to play, he just followed the refs decision. Normally, when a ref signals a goal in overtime, you go home.

It's still a poorly worded rule book, though.

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Re: Montana Match

Post by UPSoccerFanatic on Sat Oct 03, 2009 6:19 pm

Geez, after my post, I started thinking you checked the Pilots' RPI position right after entering the score, so what you saw is a good lesson in the RPI problems of playing a very poorly ranked team. I will say, however, that although some people think it is a bad thing that the RPI can impose that kind of result for a win, I'm not sure I agree. The Pilots got to play a bunch of bench players, to the future benefit of the team. If the staff chooses to schedule an opponent such as Montana, possibly with that benefit to the team in mind, then I think it's arguably fair to require the team to pay the cost of reaping that kind of benefit.

Regarding the rule related to the Mercer-Georgia State game, I think the "leave the site of competition" refers to before the officials leave. In other words, a coach wishing to protest must file a formal protest before two things happen: (1) the officials sign the official score sheet and (2) the officials leave the site of competition. I assume the purpose of this is to give the officials a chance to self-correct and re-start the game, if appropriate, although I'm not sure about the re-starting the game part. I don't think it refers to whether the coach filing the protest leaves or stays. Presumably, he would keep his team ready to go back out on the field until the ref has a chance to get out the rulebook, see if he/she made a mistake, and if so correct it if possible by re-starting the game.

Yes, your "legendary" Cliff McCrath is the guy. Here's exactly what he communicated to me about the upholding of the protest:

"The illegal goal was nullified resulting in a 1-1 OT score. Inasmuch as the opposing coach refused to return to the field (approximately eight minutes remaining) the game was not finished; however, the game had passed the 70:00th minute and under Bylaw 31 had “progressed to a reasonable point of conclusion” allowing the GSA (SRE) to declare it a completed contest.

C. Cliff McCrath, Secretary-Rules Editor
NCAA Men's and Women's Soccer Rules Committee"

I was very pleased to receive his response to my inquiry about whether the game had been declared a tie, and his response was very quick. The reason I was interested was to be sure to correctly record the score for RPI purposes. I'll be further interested to see if the NCAA picked up on the correction when it issues its first "official" RPI rankings on Monday. As a matter of interest, as of yesterday, Mercer's website still was recording the game as a win, whereas Georgia State's website was recording it as a tie. From what McCrath wrote, I'm guessing the Mercer coach told his players to head for the showers ASAP so they wouldn't be able to re-start the game if the ref reversed him/her-self. I wonder what kind of blood there is between those two teams!

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Re: Montana Match

Post by UPSoccerFanatic on Sat Oct 03, 2009 6:31 pm

Geezaldinho wrote:The GA St - Mercer game protest got me interested so I went hunting.

Though the score in question was in the 66th minute, the "winning" goal was in the 113th minute of overtime.

At that point, the ref declared a goal, which means the game is over and the Georgia State coach filed his protest.

Just to be clear, if anyone else is interested other than the Geez and I (correct usage of I?), according to the Georgia State website game story, the controversial goal was the one scored in overtime.

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Re: Montana Match

Post by DaTruRochin on Sat Oct 03, 2009 6:39 pm

Haha oh I'm following it. Sounds like there were more issues going on in that game before the bizarre ending...

And as far as the "legendary" moniker... Haha you coach your team to 37 consecutive winning seasons and 5 national titles, I'd say you've earned it...


Last edited by DaTruRochin on Sat Oct 03, 2009 6:40 pm; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : Slighting Cliff McCrath...)

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Re: Montana Match

Post by PurplePrideTrumpet on Sat Oct 03, 2009 7:52 pm

I don't have much to say about last night as everyone else covered it well. I did see that Kendra is stronger than she looks the way she took on some of the Grizzlies and came out with the ball.

We also saw that Tsao can play left back as well. The guy I stand with pointed out that she had come on, but something looked a little funny until I figured it out. Wink

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Re: Montana Match

Post by Geezaldinho on Sat Oct 03, 2009 8:04 pm

PurplePrideTrumpet wrote:I don't have much to say about last night as everyone else covered it well. I did see that Kendra is stronger than she looks the way she took on some of the Grizzlies and came out with the ball.

We also saw that Tsao can play left back as well. The guy I stand with pointed out that she had come on, but something looked a little funny until I figured it out. Wink

She and Elli have played both sides. I think I remember her freshman year she played left defense, Michelle Scifo played right defense and Elli was the right mid against Fla. State. (either that or it's the residual drug effect)

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