2010 Recruit

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Re: 2010 Recruit

Post by Harry Redknapp on Sat Nov 22, 2008 6:41 am

And there's only one position for them to play. With outfield players you can always move them to a different spot. Look how many players have switched positions for the Pilots. Even this year, Megan R to outside mid, Michelle O to holding mid, Sophie playing forward.

GK is unique. In addition to the specialty factor, there's also the high risk/emotional issue. If you make a mistake as a keeper you're often picking the ball out of the net, e.g. Kelsey v. Northern Arizona. If you're playing forward and you miss the ball it's still in play and you often have chances to redeem yourself. It's not the same impact on the scoreboard. GK's have to have great emotional resilience to just let it go and move on.

And you really want two good players because you are only an injury away from needing someone.

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Re: 2010 Recruit

Post by FANatic on Sat Nov 22, 2008 7:25 am

Totally agree, Harry. But it's a delicate balance. Garrett has said on many occasions that both Kelsey and Hailee are two of the top keepers in the country.

If Kelsey can finish out the season without having to sub in Hailee, then Hailee's 2008 season will be a redshirt. Assuming Kelsey starts next year in her senior season, that makes Hailee the starter in 2010 with the two new freshmen as back-ups.

But although coming to UP gets you a chance to train under renowned GK coach Bill Irwin, I am not convinced that "one of the top keepers (Hailee) in the country" is going to be completely satisfied with starting only in her junior and senior seasons. (Assuming she isn't beat out by one of the 2010 freshmen.)

As great as it is training with Bill, and having Tiff and Christine taking shots at you from time to time, personally it seems to me that if she started as someone's GK for four years she would have much more valuable experience under her belt. Experience that can only be gained by playing matches. (That would be from a keeper's viewpoint, not the team's.)

The flip side of the coin: She gets to train with the best, and has a shot at a championship ring all five years she is here. (They do get rings, don't they?) She can say that she is a Portland Pilot! And that in itself is no small thing if she is looking for a soccer job after college. Be it player or coach.

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Re: 2010 Recruit

Post by Harry Redknapp on Sat Nov 22, 2008 7:33 am

FANatic

She gets to be part of a great team. She will play next season - even if Kelsey is the starter I'd predict that Hailee might play the second game of weekend doubleheaders. Look how much time she got last season.

And she gets to go to school at a great university in a fabulous community and learn many great life lessons. I'm as guilty as the next person of putting soccer at the top of the life agenda but these girls are also getting an education. Very few of them will make a career out of soccer. Some may coach after UP, but for most of them that will be in addition to another job.

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Re: 2010 Recruit

Post by SoreKnees on Sat Nov 22, 2008 7:45 am

I don't think there's a problem with Hailee having two more years of eligibility and bringing in a star-recruit 'keeper in 2010. Hailee clearly has a chance to start for two years if she can beat out the newcomer; the newcomer can challenge for the job in her first years and be the "heir apparent" for her last two years if Hailee wins the job. Recruiting a highly rated 'keeper every two years seems like a logical pattern both for the Pilots and for the players.

What is more puzzling (from the girls' point of view) is bringing in two more 'keepers in 2010. As HR points out above, much can and will happen in the next two years, so we may never see both as Pilots alongside Hailee. But if both Erin and Nichole do come, someone (one of the three) is going to get essentially no playing time unless there are injuries or national team departures.

Just seems a little unusual...

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Re: 2010 Recruit

Post by FANatic on Sat Nov 22, 2008 7:57 am

Well put, Harry. Can't top that. Right on the mark!

Thanks for giving me another way to look at it.

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Re: 2010 Recruit

Post by FSUfan on Sat Nov 22, 2008 8:36 am

UF got another commit today. They are going to have a roster of 37 next year. They are following the footsteps of Bear Bryant, getting as many recruits as possible, and while some could start at other schools, they will sit on the bench and waste away. But unlike the Bear Bryant days, where all the kids had scholarships, now we have restrictions, which makes it even more odd. I am guessing a lot of parents our paying for their kids to ride the pine. Well that felt great, I got my UF rant out of the way. Very Happy

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Re: 2010 Recruit

Post by Geezaldinho on Sat Nov 22, 2008 8:53 am

Well done, too.

I've always wondered what the point of large rosters was...

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Re: 2010 Recruit

Post by Trenchcoat Wally on Sat Nov 22, 2008 9:44 am

Geezaldinho wrote:Well done, too.

I've always wondered what the point of large rosters was...

More people forced to wear Nike gear?

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Re: 2010 Recruit

Post by wrv on Sat Nov 22, 2008 10:22 am

UCLA shares a philospsoical world view with UF, in which young women soccer players, many with well earned accolades, and impressive skills, ride the pines, just in case the improbable happens and the starters and a fair number of substitutes are injured. Mind you, notwithstanding this poignant fate, the dedication of these young women is expected to be intense and unwavering.

I think we should ask the coaches of these respective institutions to justify their approaches and answer the simple question of whether idling at UF and/or UCLA in the numbers on their respective rosters is ultimately more exploitive than beneficial to these young women? I hope their friends and family suggest to them that a transfer may well give them an opportunity they might not otherwise enjoy.

It would indeed be interesting to see if these schools have a disproportionate number of trnasfers from their institutions. It seems every year there are two or three from UCLA. I note that there is nary a peep about this publicly other than an occassional thoughful note from a fan or two. There certainly seems to be no price to pay for the profligacy of these coaches.

Last time I checked UCLA had a roster of 38, but I haven't checked lately.

Good luck to FSU.

Go Pilots!

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Re: 2010 Recruit

Post by Geezaldinho on Sat Nov 22, 2008 10:34 am

wrv,

the UCLA website lists 28 players. Of these, 26 have played at all this season.

6 have played 91 minutes or fewer. (One played 11 minutes)

Sidney LeRoux, who has 1184 minutes, is lost to National team Duty.

So they really are playing with 19 players or so.

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Re: 2010 Recruit

Post by wrv on Sat Nov 22, 2008 10:48 am

Well, when I checked, it was a year ago, maybe two and I can assure you when I counted, there were 38 players--so if things have changed, well then never mind, but my count was accurate when I checked.

I still think UCLA has a disproportionate number of transfers, but I confess I have not checked that lately either.

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Re: 2010 Recruit

Post by Auto Pilot on Sat Nov 22, 2008 11:07 am

It something to do with coach philosophy. Coach Ellis recruits them all promises the world. Then when it is time to play she just lets them go at each other at practice like gladiators. Those who emerge as the 11 best individuals start. Team chemistry is often less than a friendly comraderie. And if you don't make the starting 11 as a freshman don't think you will automatically play as a junior or senior. They will recruit right over your position.

Some players thrive in this environment. Others are discouraged and become rusty and self-conscious when they do get a shot.

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Re: 2010 Recruit

Post by wrv on Sat Nov 22, 2008 11:25 am

Geezer, even 29(my count) seems high though better than 38.

Your logic here, btw, is strained--according to you the players with insufficient minutes don't count as players. The website disagrees: it lists them on the flipping team, don't you know. There are really 29, not 19--the loss to the national team is recent. The whole point of the post is about players lost in the shuffle, without a real opportunity to get on the pitch--while we can debate the philosophy till game time tonight, one can recruit in sufficient numbers that it takes on exploitive qualities.

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Re: 2010 Recruit

Post by Geezaldinho on Sat Nov 22, 2008 12:07 pm

wrv wrote:Geezer, even 29(my count) seems high though better than 38.

Your logic here, btw, is strained--according to you the players with insufficient minutes don't count as players. The website disagrees: it lists them on the flipping team, don't you know. There are really 29, not 19--the loss to the national team is recent. The whole point of the post is about players lost in the shuffle, without a real opportunity to get on the pitch--while we can debate the philosophy till game time tonight, one can recruit in sufficient numbers that it takes on exploitive qualities.

Count again, don't just see that there are numbers to 29 (there is no #9).

But that's a minor point. I tried to show that your original claim of 38 was way off the mark, and I think there the point is made.

As to the difference between 28 and the 19 that are actually making the contribution in minutes, I submit that it's up to you to show that the reason is padding the roster. You haven't demonstrated that the reasons aren't grades, injuries or redshirt attempts. You also haven't shown that those players aren't there primarily as practice players without scholarships, and aren't perfectly happy in those rolls.

While UCLA has taken on players and then recruited over them after a year, you might show evidence that this is happening now. A look at the turnover from last year might help your cause - or it might not.

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Re: 2010 Recruit

Post by Auto Pilot on Sat Nov 22, 2008 1:11 pm

There is also no number 9 or 27. Odd that 9 hasn't been taken its a star striker no. I think what adds to the confusion on the size of the roster is the different way UCLA treats a home game roster to a traveling roster. While at home they have all their players available though im not sure how many are allowed to suit up at one time.

I know when they travel about a third of the team gets left home. Total opposite of what the Pilots do. I guarantee Rachel R would not be a part of the team in her situation at UCLA. I think this people first approach is one of the reasons we all are proud of the program. Unlike the Mosh Pit in Westwood.

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Re: 2010 Recruit

Post by FSUfan on Mon Dec 08, 2008 9:23 pm

According to topdrawersocccer.com Sydney and Shelby Payne have committed to Stanford for the 2010 class. As far as I was aware, they are sophomores which makes them 2011, so I will assume they are graduating early. Either way big, big pickup, as both are super fast and one sister, forget which one, almost made the U-17s as a fifteen year old. They are originally from Colorado, moved to FLA 2 years ago, so I am not surprised they decided to head back west for college. Although I will be the first to tell you I was hoping them living in Florida would have given FSU a decent shot, oh well, could be worse, they could have gone to Carolina Evil or Very Mad

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Re: 2010 Recruit

Post by Auto Pilot on Mon Dec 08, 2008 9:46 pm

FSUfan wrote:According to topdrawersocccer.com Sydney and Shelby Payne have committed to Stanford for the 2010 class. As far as I was aware, they are sophomores which makes them 2011, so I will assume they are graduating early. Either way big, big pickup, as both are super fast and one sister, forget which one, almost made the U-17s as a fifteen year old. They are originally from Colorado, moved to FLA 2 years ago, so I am not surprised they decided to head back west for college. Although I will be the first to tell you I was hoping them living in Florida would have given FSU a decent shot, oh well, could be worse, they could have gone to Carolina Evil or Very Mad

Thanks for the heads up on the Payne's. I just gotta love twins. Remind you of any? Glad they are headed west. They just missed the right spot by about 400 miles too far south. Am glad they aren't adding to UNC crazy train.

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Re: 2010 Recruit

Post by purple haze on Thu Dec 11, 2008 11:41 pm

To pick up again on the original topic of UP recruiting top keepers: Bill Irwin's name needs to be mentioned here. For the school's top soccer guy to be a former keeper and current women's U-23 coach, well, those feathers in his Pilots cap would be hard for other schools to match. Smart keepers who want to learn and get better know what to look for in a coaching staff.

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Re: 2010 Recruit

Post by FANatic on Mon Dec 15, 2008 4:55 pm

No doubt, PH. Bill Irwin is having a huge effect on our recruiting these days.

Certainly recruiting Hailee would have seen Bill's name come up at important times. And now with the two high profile GK's recruited for 2010, it shows his presence even more.

His work as head coach of the US U23's also gives us a strong leg up on luring quality field players.

Portland is slowly starting to creep up on the "usual suspects" by bringing in more really big time recruits to the program, while at the same time luring some of the state of Oregon's top players. Staying up with the "Jones's" talent-wise is critical, of course. (Just look at the final four the last few years and you'll see some very familiar programs.)

Add the improving quality and quantity of the Pilots to the special program firmly in place, and I know we all can see multiple titles down the road. As the play-offs always show, however, and Notre Dame learned again this December, no matter how well your ducks are lined up, you still have to win six straight play-off matches to be champion. And the farther you go, usually, the harder it gets!

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Re: 2010 Recruit

Post by Auto Pilot on Mon Dec 15, 2008 5:27 pm

FANatic wrote:No doubt, PH. Bill Irwin is having a huge effect on our recruiting these days.

And now with the two high profile GK's recruited for 2010, it shows his presence even more.

His work as head coach of the US U23's also gives us a strong leg up on luring quality field players.

Actually getting recruits at the U-23 level is a little late as the players are mostly juniors and seniors by that time. However, I agree that any college program with national team ties is a huge plus for recruiting young woment with national team aspirations.

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